Converting a Traditions G4 Ultralight Northwest Magnum over to 209 primers.

[lazydrifter]

So I noticed my local store in Port Angeles(Swains) had gotten some 209 replacement breech plugs in for the G4 Ultralight.  No one seemed to know if this would be a simple changeover.  The firing pin is different between the percussion model and the 209 model.  The 209 has a small round firing pin and the percussion has a rectangular pin.  I bought a new breech plug(part # A1443) and some 209 primers. The breech plugs were exactly the same size and the distance to both the musket nipple and to the face of the 209 primer were the same.  I screwed the new breech plug in and it went bang every time.  So I went and bought another breech plug(same one) and tried it and it worked perfect too.  I have 2 of these G4 Ultralights and they worked in the other gun too.  The firing pin hit hard and left a nice indentation.   Now I have heard that some of the percussion Traditions with the rectangular firing pin have a rounded face and some have a flat face.   Mine have the flat face.  I don't know if the rounded face will work but the 209 breech plugs only cost about $15.00 so it certainly is worth trying.

[fish vacuum]

Interesting. I have the same rifle and emailed Traditions about making the switch. They said it can't be done.

[HUNT-HARD]

Yes it can be done.  They told me the same thing over the phone when I asked the question and their answer for why made me second guess them.

[lazydrifter]

I guess they would rather have you buy a new rifle.  Here is a picture of the perc. breech plug and the 209.  A spent primer is in the 209 plug.  I couldn't get  better picture.  you can see the firing pin strike in the primer.  Hit it hard. 

[lazydrifter]

Here's a better picture of the primer strike

[X-Force]

Interesting. I have the same rifle and emailed Traditions about making the switch. They said it can't be done.

Man I got the same thing!

Looks like I need to make a $15 purchase to try it out.

Lazydrifter do you have a part number for the 209 breach plug?

[lazydrifter]

part # is       A1443.  It's called an  Accelerator replacement breech plug.

[lazydrifter]

From what I can find it looks like this will work in the Buckstalker and Vortek models also.

[time2hunt]

Are these made for them by traditions or a aftermarket plug ? Be careful changing plug that are not made for your gun 209 powder are hotter shooting and create higher pressures. There been some report of blown out breach plugs with people over loading powder and modifying them.


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[Sabotloader]

Are these made for them by traditions or a aftermarket plug ? Be careful changing plug that are not made for your gun 209 powder are hotter shooting and create higher pressures. There been some report of blown out breach plugs with people over loading powder and modifying them.


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I am not sure if you are talking about BH-209, but in fact BH-209 powder creates less PEAK pressure than does a grain for grain load of T7.  Because of it smokeless properties BH burns slower than the normal BP sub and in that creates less PEAK pressure but because it burn longer it does create more total pressure (creating greater velocity at the muzzle) when shooting heavier projectiles.  When shooting projectiles of about 250 grain and less the powder is not as efficient and velocities between T7 and BH will be nearly the same.

[lazydrifter]

made by Traditions.  Break open gun.  same barrel, same breech plug that comes in the factory traditions that use the 209 primer.  Only difference is the factory 209 gun uses a different firing pin.

[time2hunt]

Thanks for clarification 👍.


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[fish vacuum]

Yes it can be done.  They told me the same thing over the phone when I asked the question and their answer for why made me second guess them.

What was their reason?

@lazydrifter thanks for posting this subject.

[Myrtle Creek Inc.]

I did some digging into this and spoke with Traditions to ensure that we were fully informed before commenting on the forum.

After speaking with their engineers, they do not feel that it is safe to use the A1443 breech plug and 209 primers in the Northwest muzzleloaders. Due to the frame and barrel designs of the Northwest guns, blowback and pressures would be unsafe and is not recommended or advised on any level. Just keep in mind, this is straight from the engineers and I am just relaying this information.

Also, installing an A1443 breech plug in your Northwest gun will void the warranty on your muzzleloader, which is always a concern.

GOOD NEWS: Not all the updates were bad news! Traditions is releasing a conversion kit for Pursuit and Buckstalker muzzleloaders, to fully adopt the 209 primers. This kit will not work in the Vortek platforms, but at least anyone owning a Pursuit G4 or Buckstalker will be able to safely make the swap, without jeopardizing their safety or voiding their warranty.

Please let me know if you have any questions about this and I will do my best to provide additional clarity on this.

[X-Force]

When are they anticipating the conversion to be released?

[fish vacuum]

Thanks for the update!

[Myrtle Creek Inc.]

When are they anticipating the conversion to be released?

Unfortunately, not as soon as we would've hoped, but they said we should have them around the end of July. I know that's a tight timeline, but we have a pretty large quantity on order. Because of the limited availability, we are building the pages on our website and will begin taking preorders by the end of the week.

[X-Force]

When are they anticipating the conversion to be released?

Unfortunately, not as soon as we would've hoped, but they said we should have them around the end of July. I know that's a tight timeline, but we have a pretty large quantity on order. Because of the limited availability, we are building the pages on our website and will begin taking preorders by the end of the week.

Has the timeline shifted or are we still on track for the end of july.

I also couldn't preorder the conversion. Best the website would let me do it put it on my wish list.

[Myrtle Creek Inc.]

When are they anticipating the conversion to be released?

Unfortunately, not as soon as we would've hoped, but they said we should have them around the end of July. I know that's a tight timeline, but we have a pretty large quantity on order. Because of the limited availability, we are building the pages on our website and will begin taking preorders by the end of the week.

Has the timeline shifted or are we still on track for the end of july.

I also couldn't preorder the conversion. Best the website would let me do it put it on my wish list.

We haven't been allowing backorders because of the uncertain timeline from Traditions on these parts. We have received an update that now puts these parts in our hands around the end of September, which is definitely much later than we prefer. We are working on some ideas to get the parts earlier, but it does not sound like anything can be done on that. I will keep updating the forum as we learn more info about the ETA. Traditions is working as hard as possible to get the parts, but it sounds like there are delays in manufacturing.

[samsqatch]

Lil off topic but I just purchased a vortek northwest magnum that uses musket caps and didn't realize it would be so tough to find them? Any of you know of a good source? Looks like a option could be to convert it to a #11? Sounds like 209 if a bad idea? Any help would be greatly appreciated I am far from being really experienced with muzzle loaders . Came with one tin of musket caps 1081 but not going to last long with how much fun it is to shoot.
 Thanks

[Samloffler]

The accelerator breach plug will not work in the NW strikerfire vorteks. I bought one to try it, and it did work a couple times with the 209s, then it failed.

The retainer for the strikerfire cocking button won't take the abuse of the 209 blowback and it will fail. Luckily, the retainer is easily replaced and cheap.

[Myrtle Creek Inc.]

Lil off topic but I just purchased a vortek northwest magnum that uses musket caps and didn't realize it would be so tough to find them? Any of you know of a good source? Looks like a option could be to convert it to a #11? Sounds like 209 if a bad idea? Any help would be greatly appreciated I am far from being really experienced with muzzle loaders . Came with one tin of musket caps 1081 but not going to last long with how much fun it is to shoot.
 Thanks

In the Vortek's, it is important to use the same 1081 caps that came with your gun. A lot of times you can find the caps at Sportsman's Warehouse, but they generally have limited supplies. When you do find them, and I'm sure you will, just make sure to buy a bunch!

[Jolten]

Oak Creek ace hardware usually has caps in stock.

[Myrtle Creek Inc.]

Good news, we received word that the Buckstalker and Pursuit 209 conversion kits have shipped and we will have them within a week.

[X-Force]

Just received my conversion.

Ill be putting it together tonight.