TC Black Diamond !!!

[robodad]

I am interested in this thread being specific to the TC Black Diamond XR .50cal and I see that there are more then a few here that hunt with one so my question is:

From your experience Which modifications have you made and which loads to you find the most reliable including ignition sources  

I'd like to use your information to shortcut my frustration !! 

Thanks for the information !!!

EDIT: Also legal for deer/elk/bear etc... no 209 primers !! 

[BIGBULLBALLS]

What caliber are you shooting?  Also is it the super xr?  I shoot the 45 cal super xr with 150gr 777 pushing 190gr barnes solid copper lit off with musket caps.  Super fast round

[colockumelk]

I shoot 100 grains of pyrodex pellets.  I shoot a 250 grain QT polymer tipped bullet.  I put on a williams peep sight.  Look at the peep sight post and I put a link to the exact sight I have.  I can hit a 6 inch pie plate every time.  My deer this year was shot at 165 yds.  and it went about 15 yds before expiring. 

[robodad]

I shoot 100 grains of pyrodex pellets.  I shoot a 250 grain QT polymer tipped bullet.  I put on a williams peep sight.  Look at the peep sight post and I put a link to the exact sight I have.  I can hit a 6 inch pie plate every time.  My deer this year was shot at 165 yds.  and it went about 15 yds before expiring. 

Do you have any trouble with the pellets not firing ?? and what ignition #11 or tophats ??

[rasbo]

I use the power belts 295 with 110grain loose powder, stock sights I have no problems,magnum caps

[Open-sights]

I have the T/C Blackdiamond XR and I love it.  I've taken three blacktails with mine, two bucks and a doe.  All three dropped where they were hit; not one of them ran.  one was at 40, one at 65, and one at 110 yards. Using 110 grains of loose Pyrodex, 405 grain Powerbelt all lead projectile.  I am using the sights that came with the gun, but am considering a Williams peep for a Mule deer hunt where most shots are over 100 yards.  Good luck and have fun.  They are sweet shooting guns.  Jeff

[Blsum]

I own the exact same gun and love it. If you get to frustrated with it I'll buy it from you.  Anyway's I shoot 100 grns of pyrodex pellets pushing a 300 grn Presicion Bullet (All lead polymer tip) with the german musket caps.  I don't know what it is but my gun hate's the Powerbelt 295 grn. I get WAY better accuracy with the presicion bullets  I've taken both deer and elk with this set up and wouldn't change a thing.

[robodad]

SWEET !! Sounds like I'll get some good feedback on this. I had to send the stock in for repair since the guy I got it from didn't tell me about the stripped front sling swivel mount among other things like rust but when I get that back I plan on workin on a couple loads to see which works better.

I'm just trying to take the straightest line between now and then so keep it coming !!!

And thanks !!

[muzzleman]

I shoot 348 powerbelts with 110 777 loose grain with #11 caps and shoot nice groups at 100 yards. I have stock sights and haven't thought about changing yet.  The only thing I don't like about the gun is, that I want to have my hand where the the front strap goes.

[rasbo]

I shoot 348 powerbelts with 110 777 loose grain with #11 caps and shoot nice groups at 100 yards. I have stock sights and haven't thought about changing yet.  The only thing I don't like about the gun is, that I want to have my hand where the the front strap goes.

im debating on my 44 or muzzy for spring bear 295 grain powerbelt,I love this gun

[muzzleman]

with bear I'm about more bullets.

[Karl Blanchard]

I don't recommend pyrodex.  It works just fine but is really dirty.  I use Pioneer powder FFF and it is awesome.  Very clean burning.  A note one the Precision rifle QT bullets,  the 45. cal are very rough to load, go with the 44 cal and you can't go wrong.  I have shot them for the last 5 years.  Higher weight retention than powerbelts and very accurate!  The German musket caps are a sure thing also.  Slightly off topic but has anyone else had problems with bigger bullets (250gr or larger) and magnum powder charges?  I couldn't get decent groups until I came down to 120gr and lower.  That was with Precision QT's and powerbelts.                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Bullet shown is a 44cal 250grain P.R. QT being pushed by 120grains of Pioneer FFF.  194.3 grains after smacking a mule deer.  That's 78% weight retention

[buckhorn2]

I have the same gun we have shot 5 bulls with and several cows and I use 3 50 cal 777 pellets. I use the 348 power belts and they have worked. I have the same factory sights it came with we have 3 of these guns and have had white and knights but like these guns better.

[huntncoug]

I have the TC Black Diamond XLR.  Over the years that I have had it I have tried everything.  The best load for my gun is 130 grains pyrodex pellets, with the 348 grain powerbelts.  My gun has killed several elk and close to a dozen deer.

[robodad]

So from all your responses I have determined that I need to start from scratch !! 

Here is what you said:

100gr Px Pellets 250gr PR QT with Williams peep site !!

110 gr loose powder 295gr PB Stock sites Magnum caps !!

110gr Loose Px powder 405gr PB stock sites !!

100gr Px Pellets 300gr Presicion bullet polymer tip musket caps !!

110gr loose 777 348 PB #11 caps stock sites !!

120gr Pioneer FFF 250gr PR QT Musket caps !!

150gr 777 pellets 348gr PB factory sites !!

130gr Px Pellets 348gr PB !!

I was hoping to get a couple if not more that were about the same but as you can see, their not even close. I understand every gun and every shooter is different but was still hoping to start with something that was more consistant with the same gun !!!

Thanks for your repiles and I'll let you know what I do, I think I might try the 777 pellets cause I have a couple boxes of em and they clean up easier but I have heard that pellets should only be used with the 209 so we will see !!!

[rasbo]

So from all your responses I have determined that I need to start from scratch !! 

Here is what you said:

100gr Px Pellets 250gr PR QT with Williams peep site !!

110 gr loose powder 295gr PB Stock sites Magnum caps !!

110gr Loose Px powder 405gr PB stock sites !!

100gr Px Pellets 300gr Presicion bullet polymer tip musket caps !!

110gr loose 777 348 PB #11 caps stock sites !!

120gr Pioneer FFF 250gr PR QT Musket caps !!

150gr 777 pellets 348gr PB factory sites !!

130gr Px Pellets 348gr PB !!

I was hoping to get a couple if not more that were about the same but as you can see, their not even close. I understand every gun and every shooter is different but was still hoping to start with something that was more consistant with the same gun !!!

Thanks for your repiles and I'll let you know what I do, I think I might try the 777 pellets cause I have a couple boxes of em and they clean up easier but I have heard that pellets should only be used with the 209 so we will see !!!

well robodad that narrowed it down for ya..my comment I would throw out.I have no problems with the 295s and loose,but Ive heard many that do.my friend uses pellets and his gun doesnt fire sometimes,could be something hes doing.your gonna have fun no matter what.

[Karl Blanchard]

The whole reason I went to the musket caps was because I used to shoot pyrodex pellets.  You won't have anyproblem with your powder going off with musket caps.  To condense everything for you I will put it this way.  Start with a clean burning powder (777 or pioneer) then a bullet that suits what you are hunting (405 grain bullet probably isn't necessary for deer but can be useful on elk) then ignite it with something reliable.  Power belts, precision rifle, nosler, hornady, they are all quality bullets and will kill just fine.  Just remember that weight retention in a bullet is very important.  More important than how big it is when it starts out.  Now that we can use jacketed bullets this opens up your options.  muzzleloaders are addicting and tweeking loads to get them dialed in is very gratifying.  Good luck and keep us posted!!!

[robodad]

I agree with you BLRman, it is a very gratifying sport, I have been dabbling in muzzleloading for a few years but using a couple older hammer guns, I found a load that worked fairly well with them but missed several times at a couple elk and it wasn't just me either, a friend used one of my ML's and he missed too, so I decided to hang them up and just enjoy lookin at em !!  Now I have this one and was really looking for a spot to start in the middle of the learning curve but as this thread proves there is no real place to start. Maybe I should have posed the question of what is the worst thing to use in a TC Black Diamond !!! maybe that would have yielded better results or at least listed some things for me to AVOID !!! LOL

I want to try some of the newer powders because of the ease in which they clean up and are less corrosive and have used musket caps even on the hammer guns so that won't be a problem, I have several kinds of bullets already that have been given to me by folks that say "try these they don't work for my gun but maybe yours will like them" so no lack of combinations there and the same with the powder, got several kinds in pellets and loose form so now I just have to wait till TC can get me a stock. I sent mine in for repair and contacted them today and they don't have any in stock and will be a couple weeks before they will have any to send me, I could get a black one from them but I sent a camo one so I guess I wait !!!

In the mean time I just gather information and hopefully I can find some common grounds between all the possible combinations or at least a place to start, I don't want to use things that suck, its counter productive !! LOL

I appreciate all your replies and yes I'll keep you informed on what I find !!! Keep sending your thoughts, I can use all the help I can get !!! 

[Karl Blanchard]

do you know if TC make a thumbhole stock for the black diamonds?

[Karl Blanchard]

I have one on my bighorn and it is the best thing since sliced bread

[robodad]

do you know if TC make a thumbhole stock for the black diamonds?

I have one on my bighorn and it is the best thing since sliced bread

I am not sure if they do but I will send Danielle an email and find out, I think I would like one myself !!!

[SHANE(WA)]

My elk loads that shot best for me were the hornady great plains 460 gr with 100 gr of triple 7, I shot the 450 precision and didnt shoot well at all, 14" more drop than the hornadys at 100 yards

[CP]

You might give this a read. 

http://www.chuckhawks.com/working_up_a_load.htm

[muzzleman]

Wow good article.

[rasbo]

that was a good read,I shoot with 110 grains of loose.Im gonna try 100..

[Archery King]

I no you have a lot of info already but i also have a different load for you.  I shoot 150 grains of pyrodex with a 295 grain power belt.  I have killed two elk with it one at 159 yards and another at 75 yards both dropped in there tracks.  Most will aurgue that you need to shoot a heavy bullet for elk i disagree.  In my opinion the closer your muzzle loader gets to a rifle the better off you are.  The higher velocity you get the better.   I do understand that this is a hot fast load and it my be tuff to achieve accuracy but with the longer barrel like you have this load is awsome.  Good Luck

[SHANE(WA)]

heavy means dead, I watched my dad hit a bull broadside at 50 yards right behind the shoulder, light bullet 300 gr only punctured 1 lung, never found that bull.Too much speed, flattened the bullet was our only reason. Perfect shot watched it all in binos, found air bubbles in blood, rib bones, jumped bull 2 hrs later.I will shoot heavy always, no sense in not, only have a certain effective range in a muzzy, taken my last 2 with a 460gr bullet, no penetratiom issues at all. Now if it were legal to shoot barnes x i would in heartbeat

[Archery King]

You say you never recovered the elk but you no you hit one lung?   Both 295 grain power belts passed all the way threw even at 159 yards.  Your saying a three hundred grain bullet was shot so fast out of a muzzle loader that it fragmented like a varmit bullet hmmmmm not sure i can believe that.   muzzle loaders dont produce enough velocity.   

[M_ray]

Just to confuse you more I shoot 100 grns 777 ffg loose powder and 310 grn knight sabots with #11 caps out of my Tc. DO NOT SHOOT 777 PELLETS WITH #11 CAPS!!!  I had one misfire and called Hodson and they said only shoot Pellets with 209 or musket caps not #11's! It's not worth the chance I had a spike elk dead to rights at 75 yards when I had my misfire    only misfire I ever had too BTW!

[SHANE(WA)]

We are all lead here, you can over push a bullet,lead has a terminal velocity, before it will become ineffective, if its going to fast and smashes it looses all penetration, closer the easier to do, the farther you get out there the fps drop, like u said 159 yards, big difference in speed. I watched at 50 yards thru binos. I could see blood running down its side as it stood there.Perfect placement, found airbubbles in blood, no exit hole, the only conclusion we came to is it made it thru only 1 lung, no way both and still alive 2 hrs later. An elk has a chance to recover from one collapsed lung, we went back for 2 weeks and looking for crows or any sign of him, nothing.

[M_ray]

Not sure what happened there Shane but I have shot all my animals with the same 310 grn bullets and never had a problem from anywhere between 8 and 137 yards ... dropped everything I've shot at ... well at least all except when my gun didn't fire!  I'd say not a good shot before I would blame the bullet weight 

[clay]

You should definetly GET RID OF IT.

Please PM me and tell me what you want for it. 

I've been wanting a second one.

[clay]

Seriously.

Does anyone want to sell me their TC Blackdiamond XR?

I need a second one.

[colockumelk]

heavy means dead, I watched my dad hit a bull broadside at 50 yards right behind the shoulder, light bullet 300 gr only punctured 1 lung, never found that bull.Too much speed, flattened the bullet was our only reason. Perfect shot watched it all in binos, found air bubbles in blood, rib bones, jumped bull 2 hrs later.I will shoot heavy always, no sense in not, only have a certain effective range in a muzzy, taken my last 2 with a 460gr bullet, no penetratiom issues at all. Now if it were legal to shoot barnes x i would in heartbeat

I believe you when you say that this happened.  Weird things happen.  I don't know what happened but at 50 yds the bullet should have passed clean through.  My dad and my uncles both shoot the 290 grain Power belts and I have seen complete pass throughs from 20 yds out to 150 yards.  I will disagree when you say there is too much speed.  ML do not produce enough speed.  The highest muzzle velocity I have heard of is with 150 grains of pyrodex shooting a 180 grain ballistic tip and that was 2,650 fps.  With only 100 grains of powder and 290 grain bullet I would estimate the speed was more like 21-2200 fps. 

Also my wife shoots the 250 grain Precision QT (ballistic tip with a polymere tip) And had a complete pass through on the spike she shot three years ago.  BTW you can now legally shoot the barnes X bullet.  The new regs say that with the ML you can now shoot jacketed bullets.  

[colockumelk]

M-Ray why are you still using the #11 caps.  You need to switch to the musket caps.  They are awsome.  Even in the driving rain I have never had a miss fire.  THey have like 4 times the flame.  They are awsome.  I used pellets and have never had a problem.  I have finally even convinced my old man to switch.  I highly recommend it.  Although by the looks of some of your pics you obviously are doing okay for yourself.  Just my 

[Blsum]

With the new changes in bullet selection. I'm going to have to test out a few new rounds. the only copper bullets I've ever put down mine are the ones that came with the gun. I've got a few to test out. I'll let you know if my gun likes any of these new rounds.

[Archery King]

295 grain power belt 60 yards 150 grains of pyrodex clean pass threw.

[rasbo]

295 grain power belt 60 yards 150 grains of pyrodex clean pass threw.

thats sweet nice work,same thing I shoot just 110 grains

[M_ray]

M-Ray why are you still using the #11 caps.  You need to switch to the musket caps.  They are awsome.  Even in the driving rain I have never had a miss fire.  THey have like 4 times the flame.  They are awsome.  I used pellets and have never had a problem.  I have finally even convinced my old man to switch.  I highly recommend it.  Although by the looks of some of your pics you obviously are doing okay for yourself.  Just my 

Well as the story goes I did switch once and as one of my hunting partners (tmike) and I were walking to another spot we wanted to try we jumped a deer and I took a ill advised running shot and missed. As the deer ran off I reached in my pocket and found that my capper had fallen out probably where I was sitting in the morning up on the hill. Well I ran over to tmike while reloading and said you got a cap I can borrow? he handed me a #11!!! I realized it's better to have the same equipment as your partners in case you loose or forget something so I switched back. h BTW I had more musket caps in my back pack i just had to dig for them!  Also I did get the deer too snuck up on him in his bed and dropped him at 8 yards!



Switching back led to my miss fire cause I still had 777 pellets left and started using # 11's again, I still have a bunch of musket caps but the other thing that bugged me about them was the groves in the side and the didn't stay on as well! I would look down after hiking around and there would be no cap at all!!! So I would cut surgical tubing and put it on oh and another thing speed loaders don't accommodate a musket and when I reload i like everything to be in one spot ... I know call me a geezer!!! I'm not much for changing this it usually causes more problems than it solves! 

[rasbo]

that 11 magnum works great and stays on,I have to pull it off

[muzzleman]

I also use the #11 but I do use loose grain.  The only thing I dont like about the musket cap, is they dont work with speed loaders.

[M_ray]

that 11 magnum works great and stays on,I have to pull it off

I do use #11 magnums!

I also use the #11 but I do use loose grain.  The only thing I dont like about the musket cap, is they dont work with speed loaders.

Yes and I went back to loose powder! I still have a bunch of pellets somewhere.

[Archery King]

Pinch the musket cap before you put it on it will stay never had one fall off yet.

[colockumelk]

Pinch the musket cap before you put it on it will stay never had one fall off yet.

 

That's what I do.  T/C also makes a really nice metal capper for musket caps that I use.  But then again M-Ray has killed more big bulls and bucks than I have so he must be doing something right.   

[Blsum]

I pinch my musket caps as well. I'll have to try the surgical tubing trick. I also will keep a capper in my shirt pocket attatched to my coat zipper with a piece of string. That way it's nice and close and I don't drop it. I'll even pinch all my caps before I load them in the capper.

[colockumelk]

I attached my capper to one of those self reeling things that fly fisherman use on their vests/necklaces.  I hook that thing to my belt so it is out of the way and does not bang on my gun, or my binos.  If I need it I grab it and the chord extends all the way out to my gun and then I let it go and it reels back in down to my belt loop.  It's really handy and I highly recommend it to everyone.  They are like $5.