Hand lapped barrel vs non hand lapped?

[spoonman]

So I thought I had my mind made up on a rifle. I purchased a Browning xbolt pro long range in 300wm but the kicker is the company I bought it from shipped the wrong rifle  so I sent it back and now the one I want is not available anywhere! I found out that the distributors wont get them in till march or so. So I'm looking at the hells canyon long range in 300wm and its $700 cheaper because of the carbon stock and the hand lapping. Is it worth it to wait for the original one I wanted? I just dont know enough about hand lapping and if it makes that much of a difference  or not? Also is the carbon stock going to be that much better than the one on the hells canyon?

[CAMPMEAT]

So I thought I had my mind made up on a rifle. I purchased a Browning xbolt pro long range in 300wm but the kicker is the company I bought it from shipped the wrong rifle  so I sent it back and now the one I want is not available anywhere! I found out that the distributors wont get them in till march or so. So I'm looking at the hells canyon long range in 300wm and its $700 cheaper because of the carbon stock and the hand lapping. Is it worth it to wait for the original one I wanted? I just dont know enough about hand lapping and if it makes that much of a difference  or not? Also is the carbon stock going to be that much better than the one on the hells canyon?

Seekins is building some nice looking rifles. Might wanna look at them.

[Bill W]

I see the one you want in the Kennewick Sportsman's Warehouse.  They are the only store in the state that has one.

[spoonman]

So I thought I had my mind made up on a rifle. I purchased a Browning xbolt pro long range in 300wm but the kicker is the company I bought it from shipped the wrong rifle  so I sent it back and now the one I want is not available anywhere! I found out that the distributors wont get them in till march or so. So I'm looking at the hells canyon long range in 300wm and its $700 cheaper because of the carbon stock and the hand lapping. Is it worth it to wait for the original one I wanted? I just dont know enough about hand lapping and if it makes that much of a difference  or not? Also is the carbon stock going to be that much better than the one on the hells canyon?

Seekins is building some nice looking rifles. Might wanna look at them.

Trying to stay under the $2000 mark. Just spent a decent amount on glass.

[CAMPMEAT]

So I thought I had my mind made up on a rifle. I purchased a Browning xbolt pro long range in 300wm but the kicker is the company I bought it from shipped the wrong rifle  so I sent it back and now the one I want is not available anywhere! I found out that the distributors wont get them in till march or so. So I'm looking at the hells canyon long range in 300wm and its $700 cheaper because of the carbon stock and the hand lapping. Is it worth it to wait for the original one I wanted? I just dont know enough about hand lapping and if it makes that much of a difference  or not? Also is the carbon stock going to be that much better than the one on the hells canyon?

Seekins is building some nice looking rifles. Might wanna look at them.

Trying to stay under the $2000 mark. Just spent a decent amount on glass.

Build one. My 6.5x284 WITH a Leupold Mark4 was right at $2000 not including the Suppressor.

[Bob33]

I suspect you could find a load that shoots 1 MOA or better in the Hells Canyon. There's no guarantee that a hand lapped barrel would shoot enough better to justify the extra cost.

How much weight will a carbon stock save?

I'd probably opt to save $700.

[Yondering]

I just dont know enough about hand lapping and if it makes that much of a difference  or not?

In my experience - it really depends on the quality of the barrel to start with, but a barrel marketed as being "hand lapped" is most likely a higher quality barrel. Personally I choose to put most of my budget towards a good barrel and glass, and most of the other features you'd pay for are secondary IMO.

With that said, modern barrel quality is generally really good these days, with even cheap rifles like the RAR and Savage offerings being more than accurate enough for any reasonable hunting ranges.

[hogslayer]

I would wait, or buy a Seekins Havok.  I don’t really see how you could build one for 2k that would be similar to these two rifles.

[spoonman]

I see the one you want in the Kennewick Sportsman's Warehouse.  They are the only store in the state that has one.

Sportsmans warehouse doesnt stock the one I want. Sportsmans stocks the xbolt pro, not the pro long range. The long range is a bit heavy due to the heavy sporter barrel.

[spoonman]

I suspect you could find a load that shoots 1 MOA or better in the Hells Canyon. There's no guarantee that a hand lapped barrel would shoot enough better to justify the extra cost.

How much weight will a carbon stock save?

I'd probably opt to save $700.

The carbon stock only saves a couple ounces,  it's more for the rigidity I think?

[spoonman]

I would wait, or buy a Seekins Havok.  I don’t really see how you could build one for 2k that would be similar to these two rifles.

It would be nice to put my hands on a Seekins! Would like to shoulder it and see how the stock feels.

[jasnt]

Put a custom barrel on a rifle you already own would my choice. But that’s just my opinion

[KFhunter]

get a honed barrel, skip the lapping

[yorketransport]

I suspect you could find a load that shoots 1 MOA or better in the Hells Canyon. There's no guarantee that a hand lapped barrel would shoot enough better to justify the extra cost.

How much weight will a carbon stock save?

I'd probably opt to save $700.

Buy the Hell's Canyon and see how it shoots. Most factory Savages are capable of .5 MOA with a little load work and those barrels are so rough they look like they were cast. If it doesn't shoot to your expectations you could have it rebarreled with the premium barrel of your choice for around $500. If it does shoot to your satisfaction you can take the $700 you saved and buy a better stock if you want one. Or, you might end up being happy with the the way the gun shoots and handles and you can just spend the $700 on more guns!

I've hand lots of hand lapped barrels and lots of standard barrels and both styles were capable of .5 MOA accuracy. The lapped barrels cleaned a little easier though.

[spoonman]

I'm a factory ammo shooter so Ill start with good ammo and see what the rifle likes.

[b23]

get a honed barrel, skip the lapping

Be careful now, wasn't it you that just said "is the thread about you? or him?" ?? 

[CAMPMEAT]

Buds has one I believe. I just looked it up. XBOLT Stalker Long-range 300 wm with muzzle brake. Is that the one, it's there.

[spoonman]

Buds has one I believe. I just looked it up. XBOLT Stalker Long-range 300 wm with muzzle brake. Is that the one, it's there.

No the one I'm looking at is the Xbolt pro long range.  I've looked all over for it, I have even called 7 different distributors and non of them have it either!?!?!

[Bill W]

I went to the Browning catalog to see what the difference between the Pro and the Pro long range was.   If it was me I'd be more concerned with how the barrel was chambered, screwed on and bedded over being lapped.  On the topic of "proprietary lapping" I don't know what other method there could be other than hand lapping or fire lapping?  Only other method I could think of would be using a laser to lap.  I've shot Shilen hand lapped barrels and don't think one could shoot better than that one.

[spoonman]

I went to the Browning catalog to see what the difference between the Pro and the Pro long range was.   If it was me I'd be more concerned with how the barrel was chambered, screwed on and bedded over being lapped.  On the topic of "proprietary lapping" I don't know what other method there could be other than hand lapping or fire lapping?  Only other method I could think of would be using a laser to lap.  I've shot Shilen hand lapped barrels and don't think one could shoot better than that one.

I like the pro long range in 300wm because it's a 1:8 twist and I like that it's the heavier fluted barrel. I also like the overall weight of the pro long range (7 1/2lbs vs the pro at 6 3/4lbs) in 300wm since I'll be taking the break off.

[Curly]

I don't think the 1:8 twist is going to be better than a 1:10.  If you check out the Berger stability calculator you can see that 1:10 twist is fine for even the longest of their target bullets.  I'm surprised Browning is using 1:8 twist in the 300wm...........

I do agree though, that the heavier barrel would be nice.

[CAMPMEAT]

Can you get the Model number, SKU or whatever ? I see Buds having it, BUT, it has a muzzle brake and it's about $735 after rebate.

ALL of the longrange rifles are Stalkers

[spoonman]

I don't think the 1:8 twist is going to be better than a 1:10.  If you check out the Berger stability calculator you can see that 1:10 twist is fine for even the longest of their target bullets.  I'm surprised Browning is using 1:8 twist in the 300wm...........

I do agree though, that the heavier barrel would be nice.

A 1:8 will be quite a bit better for stabilizing 200+ grain bullets. I'm more interested in the long range version for the heavier barrel though. There are a few manufacturers changing their 30 cal 1:10 to 1:8 or 1:9.

[Curly]

Spoonman, you might consider a Fierce Fury.

Price is around $2,000.  They have a 1/2" guarantee.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/783202654

Features:

    Chambered in 300 WINCHESTER MAGNUM
    FIERCE'S OWN TRIAD ACTION, Chrome Moly, Cerekoted in Titanium Gray, Polished One-piece Bolt, and Fierce's LastGuard Weatherproof Application
    26” Hand-lapped, Stainless Steel, Match-grade, Button Rifled Barrel, Target Crown, with 1-10 Twist, With Fierce's LastGuard Weatherproof Application
    Pillar Bedded
    FIERCE's Proprietary CARBON FIBER Monte Carlo-style Stock and KRYPTEK TYPHON CAMO
    FIERCE's 42-Hole, 15-degree Forward Slant Muzzle Brake - Up To 55% Recoil Reduction
    Adjustable (2-4 lbs), Match-grade Trigger
    Three-position Safety
    FIERCE's Speed-box Magazine
    FIERCE's Scope Bases (Picatinny-style) INCLUDED
    1” Recoil Pad
    Weight = 7lbs
    Comes With 1/2" Group Accuracy Guarantee

[b23]

It'd be interesting to hear their reasoning behind using a 1-8tw barrel.  Like has already been mentioned, a 10tw is adequate for all but the newest high BC heavies.  The new Sierra 230gr SMK at 300 winnie speeds will likely need an 8 or 8.5 twist but I don't think the 230's are well suited for that size case anyway because you can't really push them fast enough to outperform the 200-215's.  A faster twist barrel is going to pressure out sooner and shoot a little slower so I'm not sure what, if any, benefit it would provide over a slower twist like a 10 or maybe a 9 but anything faster than a 9 doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. 

[jasnt]

I like a faster twist for long range. Sg of 1.7 or better is my goal.  Ime the bullet crosses the transonic zone better with faster twist.   I’m running 1.85 in the 243 and 2.6 in the 338

[spoonman]

I want trying to make this about twist rates so much as I was the other points to the rifles. I know I had mentioned twist rate but I'm more interested in the rifle for the heavy fluted sporter barrel and the overall weight of the rifle. Also was interested in everyone's thoughts on a hand lapped barrel and carbon fiber stock vs the hells canyon long range