Winchester Model 70 EW SS or Kimber Montana

[Trigger05-11]

I am getting ready to pull the trigger on a new deer rifle. I will use this rifle for western Washington Blacktail as well as our annual trip to Wyoming for mule deer. This will be the first ever brand new rifle I have ever purchased. I own two Pre 64’s Model 70’s in .308 and 300 WM. After much research I have decided on a 6.5 Creedmore. Two rifle choices I have narrowed it down to are the Winchester Model 70 Extreme Wearher Stainless and a Kimber Montana Stainless.

The Winchester has a Bell and Carlson stock and a fluted barrel. The Kimber comes threaded for a muzzle Brake and is a little lighter. I see advantages for each. Price is within a few hundred dollars. What are oppinions of those of you with experience as I have none. How would you justify one over the other? Thanks in advance!

[lewy]

Couple good choices there, put em both in your hands and decide for yourself

[Threethirtyeight]

I have bought two kimbers Montana's one new one used. I bought the new one thinking it would be ready to hunt but could not hold better than 2"+ groups. After a trip to the gunsmith it shoots 3/4 or better. So unless you are with put a new barrel one it would not recommend.  The used one I got for a good price with the plan to build off it just to make sure I test fired so e loads and it did not shoot any better. They are great guns once you get a good barrel and have a Smith work over. Dont have any experience with the Winchester.

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

[mountainman]

Couple good choices there, put em both in your hands and decide for yourself

Good advise. Owned 3 Kimbers, all 3 lightweight. All would group under moa with factory ammo easily.

[j_h_nimrod]

Love my Kimber 8400 Montana, slick CRF action and shoots well. I have not handled a current production Winchester, but the ones I have handled were nowhere near as nice as the Kimber.

[AWS]

My nephew/coyote hunting partner has a couple Kimber Hunters SS one is a 280AI(elk rifle) and the other 243(deer and coyotes) plus he has a Win 70 Featherweight 22-250 hat he uses for coyotes, since the Kimber 243 made it into his safe the Win Mod 70 rarely goes on a coyote hunt any longer.  He loves the Kimber's and both shoot very well for him.  I wish they made the Hunter in 22-250 I'd be selling stuff to get my hands on one.

[JeffRaines]

I only have experience with the new Kimber I just purchased but...

The first two times out with it I thought that I had a dud. The first time in a sled it looked to be okay but once it came out the second trip the groups went to crap. Thing I noticed about the groups though was the fact that they were all dead on vertically, but it was stringing horizontally bad... hmm, I thought. I even planned on taking it out one more time, and if it still wouldn't shoot, I was probably going to purchased a Tikka SL and potentially send it up the road. I got home after that second range trip and started researching how to shoot light rifles. Turns out, they're REALLY sensitive when it comes to form. I bought a trigger pull gauge and tested it, it was breaking around 2.5lbs... I thought that was too heavy considering the rifle only weighs 6lbs with 3rounds in it(5lb 14oz with rifle, scope and rings), so I turned it down as far as I could without it slamfiring which ended up being 1.75lbs with this rifle.

I went back out this past weekend and turned in a 3/4" group with it.

I don't know the details of the guy earlier in this thread, and I'm sure they've put out some crappy ones in the past judging by how much bad stuff you hear, but I have to wonder how many of those were actually bad rifles and not an issue with the shooter themselves. The second range trip with this rifle, I put my Tikka SL 6.5 up right after the Kimber, shot it the exact same way(as far as hold, etc) and was shooting bug holes. Those SUPER lightweight rifles are a completely different animal.

With that said, the two rifles you're comparing are apples and oranges. Kimbers can be great, and I haven't heard anything bad about the new Winchesters. Just know if you go Kimber, you'll need to read up on shooting lightweight rifles. I also don't see this being a rig for shooting beyond 400 or 500 yards. I plan on testing that out this weekend, but with how finicky it is, I'm sure thats going to be pushing it.

[NWShooter]

Jeff,

Great reply. There is a complete different form to shooting light weight rifles. I have shot light weight customs for years. Never owned a Kimber , just figured the price of a factory Kimber was well on its way to a custom barreled action. I can stock and bed it myself. So why not go the stretch. Also the fact it's hit or miss with Kimbers, good to see yours shoots well. Maybe I'll give one a try someday. When they add to their chambering list a bit.👍

[mountainman]

I don't know the details of the guy earlier in this thread, and I'm sure they've put out some crappy ones in the past judging by how much bad stuff you hear, but I have to wonder how many of those were actually bad rifles and not an issue with the shooter themselves. The second range trip with this rifle, I put my Tikka SL 6.5 up right after the Kimber, shot it the exact same way(as far as hold, etc) and was shooting bug holes. Those SUPER lightweight rifles are a completely different animal.
[/quote]


So true!  Flyweights are a totally different beast with a totally different technique to shoot accurately.  I have owned custom built rifles under 5#'s, several Kimbers, a Browning TI and a Forbes built, in various chamberings. All very sensitive to hold, trigger, breathing, and heartbeat. Most, with a little range time, can master this and take a seemingly inaccurate gun an have it become a great shooter👆. Yes, some barrels are duds for sure, but many can be attributed to technique

[NWShooter]

Gotta watch that heart beat when shooting a factory gun on a range.  . I would suggest a portable blood pressure set up along with natural sounds like a Whale talk recording or such. Something natural and calming. May want to keep a metal file in your pocket like Tom Berenger in "Sniper" to make sure there's no burrs on those "Projectiles". May squeeze that 1/4 Moa tighter out of that bad boy. I like to use a really smooth , soft fuzzy blanket on the bench top when I get serious about pounding targets on the range! But that's just me.😷 also helps from wearing holes on the right elbow of all my jackets.

[mountainman]

Gotta watch that heart beat when shooting a factory gun on a range.  . I would suggest a portable blood pressure set up along with natural sounds like a Whale talk recording or such. Something natural and calming. May want to keep a metal file in your pocket like Tom Berenger in "Sniper" to make sure there's no burrs on those "Projectiles". May squeeze that 1/4 Moa tighter out of that bad boy. I like to use a really smooth , soft fuzzy blanket on the bench top when I get serious about pounding targets on the range! But that's just me.😷 also helps from wearing holes on the right elbow of all my jackets.

Everyone has their own style..
Welcome back😉

[Alchase]

I don't know the details of the guy earlier in this thread, and I'm sure they've put out some crappy ones in the past judging by how much bad stuff you hear, but I have to wonder how many of those were actually bad rifles and not an issue with the shooter themselves. The second range trip with this rifle, I put my Tikka SL 6.5 up right after the Kimber, shot it the exact same way(as far as hold, etc) and was shooting bug holes. Those SUPER lightweight rifles are a completely different animal.

So true!  Flyweights are a totally different beast with a totally different technique to shoot accurately.  I have owned custom built rifles under 5#'s, several Kimbers, a Browning TI and a Forbes built, in various chamberings. All very sensitive to hold, trigger, breathing, and heartbeat. Most, with a little range time, can master this and take a seemingly inaccurate gun an have it become a great shooter👆. Yes, some barrels are duds for sure, but many can be attributed to technique

[/quote]

I agree with all you posted, after shooting many "light" rifles.
Then I shot a Sako Finlight in 300WM. The difference was night and day to most "factory" rifles, light or not.
All my other rifles basically became safe/range queens.

Your experience may very 

[mountainman]

Never shot a Finlight, but have talked to several who own the with the same results👍

[JeffRaines]

I only have experience with the new Kimber I just purchased but...

The first two times out with it I thought that I had a dud. The first time in a sled it looked to be okay but once it came out the second trip the groups went to crap. Thing I noticed about the groups though was the fact that they were all dead on vertically, but it was stringing horizontally bad... hmm, I thought. I even planned on taking it out one more time, and if it still wouldn't shoot, I was probably going to purchased a Tikka SL and potentially send it up the road. I got home after that second range trip and started researching how to shoot light rifles. Turns out, they're REALLY sensitive when it comes to form. I bought a trigger pull gauge and tested it, it was breaking around 2.5lbs... I thought that was too heavy considering the rifle only weighs 6lbs with 3rounds in it(5lb 14oz with rifle, scope and rings), so I turned it down as far as I could without it slamfiring which ended up being 1.75lbs with this rifle.

I went back out this past weekend and turned in a 3/4" group with it.

I don't know the details of the guy earlier in this thread, and I'm sure they've put out some crappy ones in the past judging by how much bad stuff you hear, but I have to wonder how many of those were actually bad rifles and not an issue with the shooter themselves. The second range trip with this rifle, I put my Tikka SL 6.5 up right after the Kimber, shot it the exact same way(as far as hold, etc) and was shooting bug holes. Those SUPER lightweight rifles are a completely different animal.

With that said, the two rifles you're comparing are apples and oranges. Kimbers can be great, and I haven't heard anything bad about the new Winchesters. Just know if you go Kimber, you'll need to read up on shooting lightweight rifles. I also don't see this being a rig for shooting beyond 400 or 500 yards. I plan on testing that out this weekend, but with how finicky it is, I'm sure thats going to be pushing it.

Just an update. Got the Kimber out today to stretch it legs a bit.

Out to 420 I did well, but at 500 it was miss/miss. I was also stretching out my Tikka so I've relegated to working on 500 with the Montana at a later date - however its as I suspected, and I'm not unhappy with the purchase. If I can make it out to 500 I'll be happy.

Now for the Tikka, I got first round hits out to 600 with the 147. I tried for 750, and while I missed, I feel like thats about the extent of the holdovers anyway, as I was using the post to get out that far. As an aside, I'm limiting myself to 600 yards and in if at all possible, so the 750 shots were just for giggles. I wasn't that far off!