NE buck/deer population.

[Mr Mykiss]

Well said BP.
Eventually people will tire of not being able to find a good buck, then people will tire of not being able to find a legal buck, then people will tire of not being able to draw a anterless permit, then...

[bearpaw]

Awesome Hunting Success
We recognized the heavy deer losses a couple years ago and we adjusted the number of hunters we booked the last few years to hunt on our deer leases. We basically cut the number of hunters in half the last few seasons. We have experienced from 90% to 100% success every year. This year so far, I think every guided hunter has killed his deer and all but five hunters have killed on the first day they hunted. We are experiencing as good of hunting success as we ever have had. But we have reduced the number of hunters to allow the herds on our leases to recover and to try and make up for the increased predator impact.

PREDATORS: We are seeing cougar tracks and seeing the actual cougar pretty regular. We now randomly see more cougar in one season than I saw in my first 30 years of living in NE WA. That is how bad the cougar population has gotten. I would offer late winter cougar hunts after we finish other hunts, but the cougar quotas fill too fast and the cougar season closes. On one of the properties a wolf pack moved in and the deer left during early season, finally the pack moved on and we have a few deer back again, we've actually taken a couple bucks off that property this week.

[boneaddict]

The fact there is a cougar quota is frickin ridiculous especially with the current lack of hound hunting.

[bearpaw]

The fact there is a cougar quota is frickin ridiculous especially with the current lack of hound hunting.

   WDFW at it's finest!

In north Idaho we can take two cougar, take two bear, hunt 5 wolves, and trap 5 wolves. Cougar season is open from Nov 1 till Mar 31, over the counter bear tags in spring or fall, over the counter wolf tags. We have increased our outfiting activities in Idaho because we are seeing an increase in ungulate numbers. We are decreasing the outfitting we do in WA, mostly due to the mismanagement and reductions in game numbers we are seeing.

[quadrafire]

Are there estimated numbers for the size of the WT herd in the NE?
Bearpaw's numbers just with Predator loss is amazing. Add in all the other factors, I'm surprised there are any deer at all.

[boneaddict]

Im going to try to get the tribal numbers.   I think they have their finger on the pulse a little better.  They still chase cougs, but Im guessing they are feeling the wolf impact a bit and are trying to adjust. (as noted about their announcement to expand their wolf hunting)

[bearpaw]

Are there estimated numbers for the size of the WT herd in the NE?
Bearpaw's numbers just with Predator loss is amazing. Add in all the other factors, I'm surprised there are any deer at all.

It's hard to kill off every deer even when you high fence an area. But if you go hunting on public land you will find that there aren't very many deer, nothing like there used to be! Thankfully we have leases to hunt where we have tried to mitigate the negative impacts. Idaho flies almost every unit with a helicopter about every 5 years and they get a count that they use to gauge the herd trends. I don't think WDFW attempts to estimate the whitetail herd numbers and I'm not sure they need to. WDFW does do some transects in the summer to gauge herd trends, from what i understand some of the transects were changed, it appears they are cruising more farm ground, that might indicate herds have not dropped below previous levels and that herds are in better condition than they were. I don't know if that is the reason or not, but I myself do not trust WDFW management!

There are some good wardens and bios, but if your job depends on keeping your mouth shut and saying what you are told to say, then you might only say what you are told to say? I can't say for certain that is happening in WDFW but I'm not going to say that it isn't happening.

[quadrafire]

Gotcha

[Seabass]

The fact there is a cougar quota is frickin ridiculous especially with the current lack of hound hunting.

That makes absolutely ZERO sense!

[bearpaw]

Im going to try to get the tribal numbers.   I think they have their finger on the pulse a little better.  They still chase cougs, but Im guessing they are feeling the wolf impact a bit and are trying to adjust. (as noted about their announcement to expand their wolf hunting)

The tribe wants deer and elk to feed it's members, they have a sincere interest in regulating predator numbers. 

[baldopepper]

Simple mathmastics.....

Cougar
I can go out and find 5 times as many cougar tracks in one day as I could in the seventies and early 80's. So if northeast Washington used to have 300 cougar and there are now 1500 cougar then there are 1200 more cougar eating deer each year. F&G studies have shown that one cougar eats from 25 to 50 deer per year, so those 1200 additional cougars are eating 30,000 to 60,000 more deer per year. Even if the cougar population has only doubled (an underestimate) there are 300 hundred more cougar eating 7,500 to 15,000 more deer per year.

Wolves
Another new and increasing predator on the landscape, this is another predator we have not had in volume for over 100 years. WDFW admit to having roughly 80 wolves in northeast WA. Studies have also shown that wolves also eat about an identical amount of game as cougar. So there are 80 wolves and each probably eating 25 to 50 ungulates per year. That's 2,000 to 4,000 more deer, elk, or moose being eaten by wolves.

Bear
There's not much of an argument, bear numbers have increased since baiting and hounds are no longer allowed. While it is documented and proven that bear prey on fawns for a period in the spring I don't have any solid numbers to suggest how many deer might be getting eaten by the additional bear on the landscape.

Coyotes
Since the fur industry has been pretty much eliminated by greeners coyotes have really multiplied. It is no secret how devastating coyotes are on young fawns in June and July or on adult deer during January and February during winters with deep snow. Again I don't have any study to quote numbers, but with likely twice as many coyotes running around today there is no doubt more deer being killed by coyotes.

Homes
There are a lot of new homes in NE WA. However whitetails do very well in human populated areas. In NE WA I'm certain there are far more whitetail in human inhabited areas than out in the remote areas, whitetail actually thrive around humans but there are other associated factors with having more humans.

Autos
This is another huge factor, with twice as many autos driving the highways there are probably twice as many deer killed on the roadways. There are a lot of roadkills in northeast WA.

Domestic Dogs
Rural areas have seen the most growth in northeast WA. Most counties have doubled or more in population and nearly everyone has dogs they let run loose. I saw some stats from a F&G study done somewhere that showed a significant portion of overall mortality caused by domestic dogs.

Hunters
There are actually fewer hunters in the woods, however, more of these hunters are killing doe deer than several decades ago. If we kill too many of the breeders you can't increase the herd size. Again it's very simple mathematics!

Blue Tongue & Hard Winters
These are usually the most population reducing factors in NE WA. I think it's been three years since blue tongue had a big impact and two or three years since a big winter kill. Some have suggested a winter kill last winter, I don't think there was much die off last winter, we would see fresh bones in the spring if there was a big winter kill. However, when nature reduces the herd it takes a few years for numbers to build back up. If during this time of low deer population the predator numbers are too high then the recovery is slower and may take many years to recover.

WDFW
If during this time of a deer herd trying to recover you have a F&G Dept that is trying to make it appear deer numbers are better than they are and are trying to keep license sales going strong, and are allowing more antlerless hunting then it is very likely to have a negative impact on the deer numbers in a herd that's trying to recover during a period of extreme predation. WDFW seems to have gone predator crazy, their main goal appears to be in putting as many predators on the landscape as possible.

Do the math, add up all these increased impacts by predators, increased impacts by autos and dogs, and the fact that hunters are taking more antlerless breeders. How can a deer herd recover in a normal amount of time? Will the deer herd ever recover to the levels we had in the past?

Just my 

all great points. Only thing I might add is humter equipment. Seems every other rig I see has an ATV on it allowing these hunters to access more remote, country easier. Many are carrying range finders and weapons they can confidently shoot out to 500+ yards  Binoculars that allow them to count the fleas on a deer at 200 yards and lighter, warmer clothing that allows them to stay in the field longer. Might be fewer hunters but modern gear allows them to be far more efficient. Archery huntrs have also come a long,long ways from the old recurve days (sorry, but not sure why they get nearly a full month to hunt and either sex in most area)

[JimmyHoffa]

Don't overlook bobcats.  They are actually really tough on fawns and yearlings.

[Mtnwalker]

This may have already been mentioned but there is some recent research out of Colorado showing that black bears are making more of an impact on deer herds than previously thought and are likely the culprit for a lot of predation that was being blamed largely on lions. I quit bear hunting because I don’t really enjoy processing and eating them but I feel like I should start again if I’m going to continue to hunt deer in wa

[hambone]

Was up hunting on the back side of 49 degrees north yesterday been hunting up there since the early eights for the first time i found more cougar and wolf tracks than deer only seen 2 deer and 40 elk

[hunter399]

I was 121 today behind locked gates put in boots on the ground.Didn't see a single deer, very disappointing.
Also seen a side by side running the roads as soon as they seen me they turned around.
Did see 1 moose
Did see 10 elk
There was more in the pic but I had to zoom it in a little ,the other elk where in the trees behind these.pic quality sucks taken with my cell at about 200 yards away.