Have corn pond complexes affected your 2018 duck season?

[92xj]

If there is a change to hunting in/over a flooded corn field, the corn "complexes" will still exist. They will build even more flooded corn fields, drawing every bird to them, then hunt none corn ponds and fields on their property. Someone will kick the birds out of the flooded corn and they will fly around and go to the spot they are set up on on their private property.
Be careful what you wish for.

Again, do not add more restrictions to the private land owner/operator, there is always a work around, instead give the public land guy more options to go about his legal hunt.

[EWUeagles]

If there is a change to hunting in/over a flooded corn field, the corn "complexes" will still exist. They will build even more flooded corn fields, drawing every bird to them, then hunt none corn ponds and fields on their property. Someone will kick the birds out of the flooded corn and they will fly around and go to the spot they are set up on on their private property.
Be careful what you wish for.

Again, do not add more restrictions to the private land owner/operator, there is always a work around, instead give the public land guy more options to go about his legal hunt.

I believe harassment of wildlife is illegal haha.

They won't go anywhere at all but I also don't foresee your scenario happening either. It would take too much land and money to make that financially feasible. They will figure out how to do moist soil management, line ponds to hold water so they don't have to flood it or even simply just hunt corn. Waterfowl love corn wither it is dry or wet but wouldn't you be slightly interested in seeing a full scale study done on their affect on waterfowl or if they even do?

[hunterednate]

This whole thread sounds like a bunch of Lib supporters trying to limit what others do because they don’t like it. So sick of this thread popping, the game dept plants and floods ground also to attract and hold ducks to be hunted. My guess is this thread started by some 20 something that is use to have everything given to them prob layed  down in i5 to protest trump being elected also. Heck let’s limit the amount of property someone can own or how much money one can make. Crazy!  hunting will be doomed if hunters keep fighting each other.

Completely false. I turned 30 this year. AND I laid down on I-90, not I-5.

[hunterednate]

Make no mistake about it, corn pond hunting will eliminate free public waterfowl hunting within the very near future if the practice isn't stop.  You can stack a million birds on a ten acre sanctuary lake if there's enough feed to keep them around.  Corn ponds provide this feed.  If not stopped, 90-95% of the mallards and geese harvested in Washington State in the future will be shot on commercial outfits or private clubs with corn ponds and sanctuary lakes.  Successful, free public hunting will cease.

I have actually been privately working on the corn pond issue for a couple years now.  I've testified at Wildlife Commission meetings 4-5 times, and may be making some headway.  Hopefully there will be a public hearing arranged for this spring or summer where hunters can have their say.  I have also produced three documents detailing the corn pond issue that I also submitted to the Wildlife Commission.  These documents provide a concise, articulate evaluation of the situation and are a very easy read.  I can email the pdf files to anyone who wants them.

Man, that's awesome. Thank you for working on this. I'll pm you to get those doc's, and I expect I'll see you at some meetings coming up.

I actually ran into a WDFW biologist/wildlife area manager while afield yesterday, and he VEHEMENTLY opposes corn ponds. He says he works his tail off year round to improve public hunting areas, but cannot compete with the complexes. He has maintained duck surveys at the units he manages over the years and he thinks the data backs up his perception. I'd love to see a formal study conducted on the effect of these complexes.

[hunterednate]

If there is a change to hunting in/over a flooded corn field, the corn "complexes" will still exist. They will build even more flooded corn fields, drawing every bird to them, then hunt none corn ponds and fields on their property. Someone will kick the birds out of the flooded corn and they will fly around and go to the spot they are set up on on their private property.
Be careful what you wish for.

Again, do not add more restrictions to the private land owner/operator, there is always a work around, instead give the public land guy more options to go about his legal hunt.

I believe harassment of wildlife is illegal haha.

They won't go anywhere at all but I also don't foresee your scenario happening either. It would take too much land and money to make that financially feasible. They will figure out how to do moist soil management, line ponds to hold water so they don't have to flood it or even simply just hunt corn. Waterfowl love corn wither it is dry or wet but wouldn't you be slightly interested in seeing a full scale study done on their affect on waterfowl or if they even do?

Absolutely. I think a formal study needs to happen ASAP.

[hunterednate]

How about instead of creating more laws and regulations we actually go the other way and remove laws and regulations. Allow baiting on public grounds and lower the duck limit to 4 ducks a day.

Laws solve all the problems right? History shows us that in all aspects.

Honestly I'd rather go this route than outlaw the loophole. I believe in less regulation. These corn ponds don't bother me as I don't hunt around them. But I can see it from both sides. One side isn't allowed to put their cheerios in the milk and enjoy the breakfast, while the other person is allowed to put milk into the cereal and eat as much as they want. I think everyone should be able to eat cereal.

Ha! Perfect summary of the inconsistency in current waterfowl baiting regulations.

[Odell]

If there is a change to hunting in/over a flooded corn field, the corn "complexes" will still exist. They will build even more flooded corn fields, drawing every bird to them, then hunt none corn ponds and fields on their property. Someone will kick the birds out of the flooded corn and they will fly around and go to the spot they are set up on on their private property.
Be careful what you wish for.

Again, do not add more restrictions to the private land owner/operator, there is always a work around, instead give the public land guy more options to go about his legal hunt.

That gets pretty expensive for worse shooting. I'm sure that scenario would work somewhat but its hard to keep birds out of corn when they want in there. Not sure why they would decoy into another pond if there are giant corn ponds to hop over into. Besides, the careful wording of the law can eliminate most loopholes. In the same way you can't hunt open water near a baited spot, you would not be able to hunt in the situation you suggest.

Also, it can't be any worse than it is now.

Very few people will be willing to plant and flood corn if they can't hunt the birds it attracts. More likely is that these corn complexes become moist soil with natural feed.

[EWUeagles]

Very few people will be willing to plant and flood corn if they can't hunt the birds it attracts. More likely is that these corn complexes become moist soil with natural feed.

Which if that happened they would be building habitat for wildlife and actually helping everyone.

[Gringo31]

Sounds like mostly sour grapes....

What is the issue? 

-That they kill a lot?  If so, why the talk about water being the issue because they don't leave?  If no water and they went back and forth (yes, I see your point about the public having a better chance) but then it erases your argument about too many being killed.  It then makes one to believe that it's not about the number of ducks killed, but the fact you aren't the one killing them.

As for the speculation on flyways changing and whatnot....seems there are more accusations vs hard data.  IF there is a change needed, data first is probably better than a bunch of flaming on how it's not fair or it's about the ducks.

I don't have a dog in this fight really.  I hunt a few ducks because of my kids but we do so on public and do fine.  I will say, cold winter=more ducks....and this winter was warm.  .02

[hunterednate]

Sounds like mostly sour grapes....

What is the issue? 

-That they kill a lot?  If so, why the talk about water being the issue because they don't leave?  If no water and they went back and forth (yes, I see your point about the public having a better chance) but then it erases your argument about too many being killed.  It then makes one to believe that it's not about the number of ducks killed, but the fact you aren't the one killing them.

As for the speculation on flyways changing and whatnot....seems there are more accusations vs hard data.  IF there is a change needed, data first is probably better than a bunch of flaming on how it's not fair or it's about the ducks.

I don't have a dog in this fight really.  I hunt a few ducks because of my kids but we do so on public and do fine.  I will say, cold winter=more ducks....and this winter was warm.  .02

It's definitely NOT about the number of ducks being killed - it's about the manipulation of a loophole in current baiting regulations that reduces opportunity for most hunters.

I actually think more ducks overall will be killed if corn ponds are banned. Private land managed for ducks will still kill lots of birds - they just won't hold the concentration of ducks they do right now. Public harvest will increase as more ducks seek water on public lands after feeding in dry corn.

But I wholeheartedly agree there needs to be some hard data on this first before any rules are changed. A detailed study would be step #1.

[JBG]

Sounds like mostly sour grapes....

What is the issue? 

-That they kill a lot?  If so, why the talk about water being the issue because they don't leave?  If no water and they went back and forth (yes, I see your point about the public having a better chance) but then it erases your argument about too many being killed.  It then makes one to believe that it's not about the number of ducks killed, but the fact you aren't the one killing them.

As for the speculation on flyways changing and whatnot....seems there are more accusations vs hard data.  IF there is a change needed, data first is probably better than a bunch of flaming on how it's not fair or it's about the ducks.

I don't have a dog in this fight really.  I hunt a few ducks because of my kids but we do so on public and do fine.  I will say, cold winter=more ducks....and this winter was warm.  .02

It's definitely NOT about the number of ducks being killed - it's about the manipulation of a loophole in current baiting regulations that reduces opportunity for most hunters.

I actually think more ducks overall will be killed if corn ponds are banned. Private land managed for ducks will still kill lots of birds - they just won't hold the concentration of ducks they do right now. Public harvest will increase as more ducks seek water on public lands after feeding in dry corn.

But I wholeheartedly agree there needs to be some hard data on this first before any rules are changed. A detailed study would be step #1.

A study would be great but not sure what it would prove or dis-prove.  I think the goal of WDFW is firstly to manage wildlife populations then allow for public/private opportunity for individuals.  I think for them to make a move against corn ponds state wide you would have to prove they decrease numbers and decrease opportunity at the resource.  A public area in Oregon that has flooded corn and is surrounded by private clubs that have flooded corn killed as many ducks maybe even more than Eagle lakes did when they made their facebook post.  So maybe its just poor management of public areas that is the problem and not what private groups are doing on their own land.  Also the public areas south of EL average at least 2.3 and now 3. ducks per hunter for the year. Pretty hard to argue that the public hunting is on a downward trend with the available hard facts.  There may be some areas more adversely affected by the complexes but to conduct a study you would also need a baseline to compare it to and I dont think we have one of those.  Need cold weather

[EWUeagles]

Sounds like mostly sour grapes....

What is the issue? 

-That they kill a lot?  If so, why the talk about water being the issue because they don't leave?  If no water and they went back and forth (yes, I see your point about the public having a better chance) but then it erases your argument about too many being killed.  It then makes one to believe that it's not about the number of ducks killed, but the fact you aren't the one killing them.

As for the speculation on flyways changing and whatnot....seems there are more accusations vs hard data.  IF there is a change needed, data first is probably better than a bunch of flaming on how it's not fair or it's about the ducks.

I don't have a dog in this fight really.  I hunt a few ducks because of my kids but we do so on public and do fine.  I will say, cold winter=more ducks....and this winter was warm.  .02

It's definitely NOT about the number of ducks being killed - it's about the manipulation of a loophole in current baiting regulations that reduces opportunity for most hunters.

I actually think more ducks overall will be killed if corn ponds are banned. Private land managed for ducks will still kill lots of birds - they just won't hold the concentration of ducks they do right now. Public harvest will increase as more ducks seek water on public lands after feeding in dry corn.

But I wholeheartedly agree there needs to be some hard data on this first before any rules are changed. A detailed study would be step #1.

A study would be great but not sure what it would prove or dis-prove.  I think the goal of WDFW is firstly to manage wildlife populations then allow for public/private opportunity for individuals.  I think for them to make a move against corn ponds state wide you would have to prove they decrease numbers and decrease opportunity at the resource.  A public area in Oregon that has flooded corn and is surrounded by private clubs that have flooded corn killed as many ducks maybe even more than Eagle lakes did when they made their facebook post.  So maybe its just poor management of public areas that is the problem and not what private groups are doing on their own land.  Also the public areas south of EL average at least 2.3 and now 3. ducks per hunter for the year. Pretty hard to argue that the public hunting is on a downward trend with the available hard facts.  There may be some areas more adversely affected by the complexes but to conduct a study you would also need a baseline to compare it to and I dont think we have one of those.  Need cold weather

Doesn't WDFW also care about hunter recruitment? Hunting numbers are going down and less animals on public land isn't going to help those numbers go up. What if a study shows that concentrating a large number of animals over the natural carrying capacity leads to diseases? I'm not saying they will find that but I wouldn't discredit it before research can be done. I agree a baseline is needed to know a lot but I have no clue what data they have and don't have, do you? Of course we need cold weather but this isn't the first time this conversations has been brought up and it's not brought up only on poor seasons.

Gringo, it's not about you have something I want so we need to get rid of it. I have brought up some concerns and valid reasons but if you want to have a more in depth discussion please PM, who doesn't love a good debate!

[bigdub257]

What about bringing this up with the Feds.  Don't they ultimately have the final say regarding migratory waterfowl regulations?

[EagleEye]

I believe in a live and let live approach.  I do not own land but I can't blame people who do for trying to improve their property to attract ducks.  If I had land I would want ducks on it.  I know lots of people on this discussion feel differently but in my opinion, if those guys shell out the money and time to buy land and keep it in good shape for ducks it's okay with me.  I think this season was bad for a lot of reasons - weather didn't help us much.  If lots of ducks were hanging out in these corn ponds then it seems like there should be a bumper crop of birds next year and they should spill out all over the place.  I just think some years are up and some are down.  Can't fault someone for wanting to make a sweet duck hunting pond on their land - that seems okay to me. 

[hunterednate]

What about bringing this up with the Feds.  Don't they ultimately have the final say regarding migratory waterfowl regulations?

This issue is definitely on the federal radar. There are some huge corn pond complexes in the midwest, and plenty of hunters are voicing their concerns (see Wildfowl mag, Sept. 18 issue for a report on this).

Current waterfowl baiting regulations are all federal, so it wouldn't surprise me if at some point they modify the language in the present rules to close the flooded corn loophole.

That being said, individual states also have the right to restrict certain hunting activities that may be legal elsewhere (e.g. electronic decoys). The state route is probably more realistic at this point than a federal rule change.