Shoot or No Shot 2019 – Episode #2

[WapitiTalk1]

Date/Time: Third Week of September, 2019/5:42 PM
Location: Somewhere in the elk woods
Hunt Pressure Status: Minimal
Hunt: Solo Hunt
Tag: Archery tag; any bull

After hunting with your partner off and on for the past week and a half, working many avenues of your hunt (run/gun, some tree standing, some ambush sites on travel routes, etc.), you find yourselves at the last few days of your hunt. For some odd reason (as it sometimes does) the elk have decided to become a bit choked up over your presence in their neck of the woods and have gone almost completely silent for the past two days. WTH, it’s the third week of September! This evening’s plans are for you and your buddy to each head to a separate spot where you know the elk have moved to or through, at the witching hour (right before dark). If they’re not vocalizing, you may as well split up and maximize your efforts in ambush attempts. As you sit at your chosen spot (you’ve been here before and know there are elk that move into/through this spot right before dark almost every night) thinking about all that has transpired on your hunt and what you may do the following morning, you see a nice bull move directly toward you into the small opening you’re sitting at the edge of and holy hell, he's a dandy!. He comes in from the direction you’d hoped he came in from (wind in your favour) and commences to drop his head and sniff the ground for that sweetest smell that tells him a cow in estrus has been there!  You’re at full draw by this time and now is the moment of this hunt to make the CALL. I will tell you that you’ll have approximately 30-40 second to decide if you’re gonna touch off an arrow at this bull “but” the crux of the biscuit is……. you’ll have 5 various angles (images I’ll provide) in this short span of time to shoot. The bull is 25-30 yards away and you my friend, have chosen your background to sit in front of well, and as mentioned, you have the wind vs. your opponent. This is the first opportunity/angle, number one of five, in the next 30-40 seconds (it all happens pretty quickly so it’s up to you to decide which shot you'll take)... he's not gonna be there forever sniffing the dirt. For this first angle/image....Shoot or no shot here?



As with all my super cool scenarios, if you say "shoot".... I'd like you to show us where... You do that by copying the image to your desktop, open it up with MS Paint, mark it up with an X or whatever, then save the image and post it back to the thread. 

[Stein]

I would pass on shooting the angle in the first image.

[DOUBLELUNG]

I'm not shooting even though I know where to aim and that a lot of elk have been killed fast with spectacular blood trails with this shot.  I put an arrow completely into a bull at under 18 yards from a very similar angle, saw the nock disappear into the hair over the windpipe, absolutely no question he died but all he ever leaked was one tiny watery drop of blood.  It's great if the broadhead nicks either the carotid or jugular in which case there is fantastic blood spray, but otherwise the chances of no blood trail are too high for me. And, I'm not aiming for a blood vessel.

I might do it if this was an area with grass understory, open/no canopy, with minimal brush with good chances to watch him run and fall or follow tracks over sparsely vegetated ground - but small opening tells me we're in the thick stuff.  It's even less appealing that it's last light, but my answer would be the same for any time of day.

[MtnMuley]

Pass waiting for a better shot.

[Timberstalker]

Waiting for him to turn a bit.

[coachcw]

If im full draw and know the yardage i will kill that bull all day . tight to the neck lower third . That is the angle most solo callers are presented . typically i will move off to a quartering angle after my last call but some times your pinned down .

[Crunchy]

Arrow on its way

[WapitiTalk1]

A few seconds after the bull arrived on the scene as shown in first image, he moves forward a bit and drops his head to sniff the ground. Thermals are still hitting you in the face, your cover/concealment is still working well, you're set up in a "quiet spot" with soft dirt/grass under you, your bow is whisper quiet when drawn, and.......this bull is not gonna be around much longer.... Barney Bull looks to be a bit over 25ish yards from where you're kneeling. Shoot or no shot here?

As with all my scenarios, if you say "shoot".... I'd like you to show us where... You do that by copying the image to your desktop, open it up with MS Paint, mark it up with an X or whatever, then save the image and post it back to the thread.

[MtnMuley]

Pass again. How do you know this bull isn't going to be around much longer?  Looks completely undisturbed feeding towards me, with all elements in my favor?

[WapitiTalk1]

Pass again. How do you know this bull isn't going to be around much longer?  Looks completely undisturbed feeding towards me, with all elements in my favor?

Muley, cause I have all the pics/times this occurred and I know he's not here long and will head off to the left in the next handful of seconds (posts) to head down an elk trail to an adjacent small meadow, just on the other side of a patch of timber.  He's moving all right, just as soon as soon as he snorts a bit more whizz dirt.  More to follow   

[Stein]

P A double s.  I don't even have to think about this one.

[MtnMuley]

Ha, but we don't have those pics and no knowledge that he's going to move off shortly. Granted you said that, but in a real life situation like you present, I can only answer based on the pic, elements, and variables. Still pass.

[WapitiTalk1]

Ha, but we don't have those pics and no knowledge that he's going to move off shortly. Granted you said that, but in a real life situation like you present, I can only answer based on the pic, elements, and variables. Still pass.

Fair enough. 

[Jonathan_S]

  to @coachcw and @Crunchy

[Shawn Ryan]

Game time decision on the first pic, based on how good I "feel" about it at the moment.  Agree with Coach about it being a high percentage of times that that presentation is what I get. If I shoot, then just to the left of Crunchy's shot. 

Pass on the second pic.

[WapitiTalk1]

And..... he's moving off to the left as you suspected he may do, probably gonna head down that trail that leads through the thick stuff to another meadow. Nose down again, checking to see if just maybe, a potentially receptive cow has been there.. He's still very intrigued with his smelling mission, but, time's a wasting folks! That is a damn nice bull that many have chosen to wait to put an arrow into. About 25 yards from your position here I reckon..... Shoot or no shot here.


As with all my scenarios, if you say "shoot".... I'd like you to show us where... You do that by copying the image to your desktop, open it up with MS Paint, mark it up with an X or whatever, then save the image and post it back to the thread.

[greenhead_killer]

first pic is the only one id be willing to fire a shot at. second two pics, window is too small and really bad angles. too many variables to feel 100% those shots. first pic though, def hammering down. right in the black spot on the neck

[MtnMuley]

Pass again. Since I have the wind and concealment, I'm more than content to watch him feed to my left patiently waiting my window.

[flyfishWA]

I would stick it all right! no way I am passing on that thing

[WapitiTalk1]

A handful of steps puts the bull where he is NOW and his head drops one more time to complete his area "scent check". Shooting light is waning and the bull is more than likely heading down the trail he's facing at this point within seconds. This whole scenario has played out in a less than a minute with the bull being in shooting range and offering only the angles you have seen for a potential shot. You may or may not have held at full draw for this entire period but it’s certainly possible as he was pretty much in your face moving and sniffing, changing his body angle several different times, for this short period. For those who have waited to take a shot until this point, do you feel that you should have taken that earlier, very first shot angle or are you OK with the fact that you've waited?

OK, shoot or no shot here?

As with all my scenarios, if you say "shoot".... I'd like you to show us where... You do that by copying the image to your desktop, open it up with MS Paint, mark it up with an X or whatever, then save the image and post it back to the thread.

[MtnMuley]

Archery elk hunting is all about patience, so I'm at full draw waiting for the next step, and as the left leg clears forward, I'm sending at double lungs.

[Shawn Ryan]

3rd pic, not shooting.  4th pic, I'm waiting with MtnMuley, hoping that as the left leg steps forward, it doesn't take my "spot" into the tree.

[Stein]

I'm passing on that one as well, I don't like my abilities to figure out exactly where the near side leg bones are.

[Karl Blanchard]

I've seen these quartering to shots taken far too many times.  More than one that were even more of a broadside than the pics above.  EVERY SINGLE TIME it's a one lung *censored* show.  Behind the shoulder, quartering to is the one shot I will never take.  100% of the time, every time 

[WSU]

I don't see any way to get both lungs unless you have a weapon capable of breaking serious bone.

[WapitiTalk1]

I guess the moral of this story (thread) is that shots at elk are fleeting at best in many situations you'll find yourselves in, and, a hunter should take the first kill shot that presents itself (be opportunistic). IMO, patience doesn't necessarily mean wait, Wait, WAIT until a broadside shot develops. I think there are a few good opportunities in this scenario to fill the freezer. When the right situation/kill shot presents itself, it’s the cold hard heart that reacts to what is offered and the shot is on its way without much thought. 

Good discussion folks, I hope everybody is enjoying the thread. I'm glad somebody decided to try the shot where the bull's left antler is almost covering the narrow vital area on the bull's left side. Here's what I think what may have happened when that shot was taken.

Just as the shooter releases an arrow from his old dusty bow, the bull tilts his head back a hair and the arrow hits the bull in his left antler, right below the 5th point (1) BAM. From that point, the shooter’s crooked old rusty arrow ricochets and heads to the bulls right antler, half way up his 6th point (2). CRACK, it then shoots straight down to the lower part of his right antler (3) WACK. From there, his arrow kicks off back to the right and hits the bull right above his 3rd point (4), ZONK, and shoots straight up in the sky (5) ZIP, but hits an Idaho squirrel in the head (they have hard heads) and ricochets back down WHOOSH and hits the bull’s right antler yet again (6) BOINK. From there, the shooter’s broken up old arrow still barely has the energy to blast back towards the bull’s right chest pocket (7) THUNK, and pushes all the way through the bull’s vitals till it exits at point (. The bull falls in his tracks, the shooter gets a big grin on his face, and reaches for his pack to get camera and clip shot ready for some serious hero photos. Nice shooting buddy  .  Just teasing you flyfishWA, you "know" I had this satirical post and picture ready to go. 

[flyfishWA]

I guess the moral of this story (thread) is that shots at elk are fleeting at best in many situations you'll find yourselves in, and, a hunter should take the first kill shot that presents itself (be opportunistic). IMO, patience doesn't necessarily mean wait, Wait, WAIT until a broadside shot develops. I think there are a few good opportunities in this scenario to fill the freezer. When the right situation/kill shot presents itself, it’s the cold hard heart that reacts to what is offered and the shot is on its way without much thought. 

Good discussion folks, I hope everybody is enjoying the thread. I'm glad somebody decided to try the shot where the bull's left antler is almost covering the narrow vital area on the bull's left side. Here's what I think what may have happened when that shot was taken.

Just as the shooter releases an arrow from his old dusty bow, the bull tilts his head back a hair and the arrow hits the bull in his left antler, right below the 5th point (1) BAM. From that point, the shooter’s crooked old rusty arrow ricochets and heads to the bulls right antler, half way up his 6th point (2). CRACK, it then shoots straight down to the lower part of his right antler (3) WACK. From there, his arrow kicks off back to the right and hits the bull right above his 3rd point (4), ZONK, and shoots straight up in the sky (5) ZIP, but hits an Idaho squirrel in the head (they have hard heads) and ricochets back down WHOOSH and hits the bull’s right antler yet again (6) BOINK. From there, the shooter’s broken up old arrow still barely has the energy to blast back towards the bull’s right chest pocket (7) THUNK, and pushes all the way through the bull’s vitals till it exits at point (. The bull falls in his tracks, the shooter gets a big grin on his face, and reaches for his pack to get camera and clip shot ready for some serious hero photos. Nice shooting buddy  .  Just teasing you flyfishWA, you "know" I had this satirical post and picture ready to go.

OOPS  I sure made a bad shot 

[WapitiTalk1]

No ya didn’t brother, you drilled him.  It’s a tight window but you dropped him.