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Author Topic: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input  (Read 13317 times)

Offline cameronwe

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Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« on: February 10, 2019, 09:56:13 AM »
I'm not sure if this is the best place to post this, so move if need be. While I signed up for this site years ago I am pretty much brand new to hunting and am going to try and make a big push to work the woods this year and will no doubt be asking a ton of stupid questions across several topics, so please bear with me.

    Long story short, went on a day hike a couple of weekends ago and put myself in the position where I could have been in a great deal of trouble. Poor clothing choice, lack of information and not doing the basics.Hard hike uphill in the rain with a significant temperature drop at the top. My Primary question is: What do you wear when you know it's going to be an ass kicker, wet and cold? How do manage layers when you would be sweating  in a t-shirt and getting rained on in 45 and below temps, let alone wearing some sort of base layer?

Here is the long story. I'm 44, 5'4" not in the best shape but not horrible compared to some. Have some outdoor experience from boy scouts 30 + yrs ago, Army infantry in my early 20's and have been cold, wet, tired etc. So I think I know what to watch out for.  Decided to go on a hike and find Lost Lake on Sumas Mt. Just outside of Bellingham. The trail head is actually Gold Mine Trail if anyone is familiar. Round trip was a shade over 8 miles with about 3'000 vertical ft. change, so pretty straight up and down. Weather upon leaving the house was mid to low 40s. I wore synthetic pants (think costco old man travel pants), capilene base layer on top and a Frog Toggs rain jacket I had lying around that I wanted to test. Wool socks  and Asolo gortex boots.  I didn't tell anyone where I was going, as I have done the short version of the hike several times and it's a piece of cake and well traveled. Turned off the main trail to start looking for lost lake. Almost immediately going straight up, I'm sweating pretty quickly thereafter and examining the ground about four feet in front of me while I huff and puff up the trail. It's raining intermittently and I'm having to walk through brush so my pants are getting damp. Get towards the top of the ridge line and start getting short bouts of sleet. I continue on for a bit  until I realize the last turn I took has led me down another ridge that is not going to take me to the lake (Looking at maps on phone). I'm getting a little chilly and my right hand is very cold and almost numb (I have previous minor cold injury from motorcycling and working in cold storage and that hand seems to get cold much faster than anything else). These trails have not been well maintained, are steep and I have had to climb over, around and through the occasional blow down. At this point I decide to turn back as I realized 1. No one knows where I am 2. If I slip and break or injure myself I could be in real trouble. 3. I have seen not a soul and no one is going to be able to reach me quickly unless it's a helo. and 4. I don't have much in the way of other gear. As soon as I drop a thousand feet or so things start to warm up and I make it back ok. Total trip time about 4 hours. Dumb things I did: Didn't tell anyone where I went, didn't put on my wool hat as soon as things flattened out, I waited until I was cold already to do that and put to on gloves. I had a really crap rain jacket that I will never use again as it had zero breathing ability and might as well have been a plastic bag. The pants actually surprised me as they shed water ok and dried fairly quickly and I never felt like the contributed to my being cold. The whole thing was pretty much a non issue, but any sort of serious injury could have been really bad news.
 How do you manage your clothing and temperature when you have a hard hike in which you are sweating, it's raining and of course the temp drops as you get higher? I have some old "gortex" pants from the army, but frankly they are super heavy weight and I think they would have been way to hot and I would have been worse off with them..unless I forced to hunker down.

If you made it through my ramblings I'd appreciate any input on the situation, gear etc.

Cameron




Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2019, 10:08:44 AM »
I wear merino wool baselayer with Kuiu Chugach rain gear and that works for hi exertion for me.  Be prepared to put on another underlayer when stopping in cold conditions.   If you are a heavy sweat person your best bet may be full wool though best if possible for me is to slow down enough not to sweat. 

Offline mjustice79

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2019, 10:11:01 AM »
Typically when I go out in the winter, I’m usually wearing just a base layer top. Sometimes just a moisture wicking T-shirt and an OR Jacket, Ferossi summit hoodie. The rest of my layers are in my pack, so when I stop, I’ll throw them on. My hard shell is also from OR, has the pit zips as well. My trousers are either Kuehl  for lowland hikes, and my OR soft shell pants I use for climbing. My backpacking stove is always with me in the winter, with a couple packs of hot chocolate, and my mug. I would also say, be sure you always carry the 10 essentials and know how to make a fire in wet weather. I’m a retired Infantryman, so you already know how to suffer lol! Hope this helps.


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Offline 7mmfan

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2019, 10:27:24 AM »
If you know for sure you're going to be sweating s bunch in cold nasty weather, it may not be a bad idea to bring a 2nd set of dry base layers with you to change into. I know synthetic base layers are worthy, but I am sold on good merino wool base layers. They dry quickly and insulate while wet. If you can, invest in good light weight rain gear. I have the Kuiu Chugach stuff. Its fantastic.
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Offline NW SURVEYOR

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2019, 10:32:19 AM »
Cameron,
We have all been there, the good news is that you learned a lesson with no cost or loss other than a little discomfort.

Having hunted elk and deer on the wetside for 45 years and worked as a surveyor for 35, I can honestly say that I have seen just about everything.
The hikes into good hunting often require long hikes/climbs in the morning with 5-6 hours of hunting a then a hike back to the rig.
Staying dry is practically impossible, but here's what I try to do.....

I goes without saying that we all need to be in shape, which is a constant struggle for me at 61, but I try.
Most important, carry a daypack with plenty of water and grub, the calories are important, also flashlight, compass, etc.
First of all, dress in layers with a good Poly Pro type long underpants and shirt.
Invest in a good pair of waterproof/resistant outerlayer pants or at a minimum, rain pants.
For work or scouting trips, try the Filson chaps, they are great.
When leaving the rig, I try to wear the minimum on my uppers as I will soon be sweating.

Pace yourself on the hike in, as this is what typically ruins the day.
Stop often enough to cool off, remove your jacket if possible to allow any sweat to evaporate and leave your hat in the pack.
I have actually stopped and removed my shirt trying to keep cool/dry.
Leave plenty early and travel with a flashlight in order to minimize hurried travel.
I have never done it, but if I have considered using an umbrella on a major trail to avoid needing rain gear.
All rain gear that I have used, including Kiuiu (sp) gear, which I have, collects condensation, figure out how to minimize this and your golden.

I have only recently started wearing gators and kick myself in the as# for not buying them sooner, dry feet, happy trip.

When I get to my hunting area, (I still hunt a lot) I cool off, redress in layers, which I carried in my daypack, and hunt at a pace which is slow enough to avoid overheating.  If I get to warm, I make adjustments.

When working in the woods, we typically dress a little lighter and wear a heavier rain jacket which is left somewhat open to allow heat/vapor to escape.
Being that we are working, it is added incentive to keep busy in order to keep warm.  Just remember to replenish water and calories, and don't forget as#wipe.

I hope some of this helps.

Good Luck,
Rob.
 







Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2019, 10:43:50 AM »
The above recommendations on clothing will keep you warm and dry. There's no need to suffer wet and cold with modern clothing technology. Get a SPOT or a Garmin InReach if you're going to hunt alone. Make sure your boots are every bit as good as the rest of your clothing will be.
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Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2019, 10:48:31 AM »
I’m a sweater, i like to bring an extra shirt, Merlino wool, and change when I’m done sweating.  In hunting mode you shouldn’t be sweating. Layering up and down is the best way to stay comfortable.
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Offline JeffRaines

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2019, 11:02:14 AM »
I’m a sweater, i like to bring an extra shirt, Merlino wool, and change when I’m done sweating.  In hunting mode you shouldn’t be sweating. Layering up and down is the best way to stay comfortable.

I'm the same way - I laugh when some of these folks say to just slow down... sometimes I sweat sitting still!

If I was hiking into an area to hunt I may consider bringing extra clothing and relayering upon arrival.

If I'm just hiking, I have a puffy I throw on when I'm going to take an extended break. Down when the weather is good, synthetic when it aint. The key for me is putting that jacket on as soon as I stop... if you wait to "cool off" for a few minutes you may end up too cold.

Offline Humptulips

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2019, 11:16:29 AM »
Two things that have been mentioned.
A pack: Put some extra clothes in your pack. You won't want a lot of clothes when you are exerting yourself but you need to carry them with you when you slow down and start to cool out plus when you gain a lot of altitude you have to figure you will need more clothes as it gets colder.

Rain clothes: I have to say I am not a fan of the so called breathable rain gear. They always are damp inside in my experience. I prefer the non-breathable stuff but they need to be big enough to allow air circulation. Skin tight rain clothes are a no-no. Bib rain pants with your coat always unbuttoned and a size bigger then you probably think you need gives you enough air circulation to get rid of perspiration.
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Offline ian_padron

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2019, 12:32:34 PM »
If you're running just 1 baselayer (I always bring an extra to switch out once I stop moving), use a merino quarter zip and open that zipper to your belly button to dump heat. I never wear rain gear on the hike up for a day trip, you'll wet it out with sweat even with the high tech gear. Once that happens, you're screwed.

Save your shell for if *censored* hits the fan or once you get up top and need a windbreaker. A windshirt would excel in the conditions you described. Patagonia makes a 3 oz. one called the Houdini. Very nice piece of gear. Basically waterproof, very breathable, cuts the wind.

ALWAYS pack a puffy jacket. DWR treated down or synthetic for the PNW. Slap that puppy on once you're up to your destination and you're going to be snug as a bug. A good synthetic fill like Climashield or Primaloft will actually dry out your baselayer too!

Puffy pants are the most underrated piece in my opinion. They have saved my A$$ on more than one occasion in the backcountry and weigh about a half pound.

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Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2019, 12:59:39 PM »
I take extra stuff in my pack.  Then I do all the moving in the minimum amount needed, a shirt and the raincoat.  When stopping, throw on the long sleeves, the fleece, vest, etc.

Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2019, 01:35:47 PM »

Puffy pants are the most underrated piece in my opinion.

Thats the one piece I don't carry yet but thinking that and top puffy with survival bivy may be the ticket to getting caught out overnight.   My down top puffy fits in a sandwich bag and weighs ounces. 

Offline Alchase

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2019, 01:55:02 PM »
When I am hiking in, I usually only wear a wicking t-shirt (Dry-fit) and my fleece jacket. And Columbia ripstop pants.
Once I get to my location I change out my shirt and my socks if need be. If needed throw on a poly-pro second layer.
Rain gear (Grundens Petrus pullover and Columbia packable water proof pants) if needed  in pack. Marino wool shirts if expecting snow.
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Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2019, 02:40:46 PM »
I’m a sweater, i like to bring an extra shirt, Merlino wool, and change when I’m done sweating.  In hunting mode you shouldn’t be sweating. Layering up and down is the best way to stay comfortable.

I'm the same way - I laugh when some of these folks say to just slow down... sometimes I sweat sitting still!

If I was hiking into an area to hunt I may consider bringing extra clothing and relayering upon arrival.

If I'm just hiking, I have a puffy I throw on when I'm going to take an extended break. Down when the weather is good, synthetic when it aint. The key for me is putting that jacket on as soon as I stop... if you wait to "cool off" for a few minutes you may end up too cold.
One time in Idaho we had a lot of elevation to gain in a short time, I just took my shirt and jacket off, naked from waist up. Lol   It was about 20 degrees out!
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Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2019, 05:21:16 PM »
My puffy weighs ounces, I carry it with a spare merino base layer.   Sure nice when you get to the top to throw that on with a Chugach shell and ready to hunt.

Offline Oldguy

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2019, 05:33:23 PM »
I do a lot of trail maintenance this time or year and wearing knee-high gaiters keeps your lower legs warmer as well as dryer.
Glad to see you doing your best to do what is wise in regard to preventing hypothermia instead of blindly becoming a victim.

Offline Okanagan

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2019, 05:44:12 PM »
Good for you to get out there!  We learn more by such hikes than any other way.  Some of my gear and practices are a result of long cold nights and wet cold hikes like yours.  You made a good choice to turn around.  Being stubbon gets some of us killed.  Lots of good stuff posted already:  boots, gaiters, etc.

For me, first I assume that in the conditions you described, I'm going to get wet, either from sweat or rain/wet brush.  I choose wet from sweat.  Others may differ.

On a hike/hunt I did in the N. Cascades from river bottom to above timberline in late Fall, it was raining at trailhead elevation and snowing steadily from half way up and above.  My first choice for such conditions (and also for some mild temps spring skiing) is to wear one thin layer of synthetic next to skin with breathable rain shell over that.  Nothing else unless it is quite cold.  My sweat outruns the garment's ability to breathe out water, so I get wet.  Synthetic fishnet was my all time favorite inner layer when I only wore a rain shell over it.

In my large summit pack size daypack I have insulating layers for top and bottom to put on if I stop for very long, or slow down to still hunt and glass.  All such extra clothes are sealed in a plastic bag inside the pack.  Do not depend on waterproof packs.  There ain't such a beast IME.  The most warmth for bulk are a fleece neck gaiter and stocking cap.  The stocking cap/toque goes over a cap with brim because I wear glasses and a large brimmed Florida fishing cap keeps rain off the lenses. 

If the trail is wide enough, I have rigged an umbrella or a light poncho to my frame pack so that it keeps rain off of my head while I hike.  Sticks that curve out over and ahead from where they are stuck or lashed to the frame make a roof for the person wearing the pack.  Doesn't work in wind.

For hunts when I hike up to timberline in the dark in order to hunt the dawn, I carry clean underwear and some wet wipes, sealed in a plastic bag.  Get under a spreading tree, strip down, wash off the worst sweat and put on clean clothes from skin out, including thin long johns for me at this point.  I feel lots better and I think I am warmer when clean and not gummy with sweat.

You are up to speed on this but I don't wear a stitch of cotton. 

Offline grade-creek-rd

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2019, 09:35:47 AM »
Lots of great info already stated...so the only thing I will add is to put a road flare in your day pack (I carry one vacuum sealed, keeps everything clean as that wax on the flare gets messy in the pack)...IF you get hurt or lost you can start a fire easily and with any wood found, no matter how wet. for clothing and other great stuff, see all of the replies above!

Grade
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Offline idaho guy

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2019, 09:45:16 AM »
Lots of great info already stated...so the only thing I will add is to put a road flare in your day pack (I carry one vacuum sealed, keeps everything clean as that wax on the flare gets messy in the pack)...IF you get hurt or lost you can start a fire easily and with any wood found, no matter how wet. for clothing and other great stuff, see all of the replies above!

Grade

 :yeah: I do the same(except I keep more than 1) as long as you can build a good fire you will be ok in most circumstances. Nothing beats a flare to start fire under any conditions. Layering,proper gear and all that is important but making fire is most important I think. 

Offline HikerHunter

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2019, 10:24:10 AM »
There is lots of great advice already here. You need experience with how your own body handles heat/cold/exertion/etc. like how you mentioned your right hand gets cold easily, so adjust accordingly.

I sweat easily and quickly, but also have poor circulation to my hands. Hiking in any rain gear would just get me soaked from the inside, so in the cold rain, I'll hike in a thin merino shirt with gloves and have a spare shirt in my pack to change into.

I highly recommend a Spot or InReach GPS messenger as well. Your life is worth it!

Offline DOUBLELUNG

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2019, 02:04:15 PM »
Five pieces I always want in my day pack: wool watch cap, Filson mackinaw wool vest, and an oversize fleece sweatshirt with drawstring hood and waist.  Para cord and a disposable plastic film painter's tarp to make a wind and waterproof shelter (these latter two for when you aren't expecting to get dumped on with rain or snow, pretty sure they saved me a couple of times).   
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Offline CAMPMEAT

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2019, 02:12:04 PM »
I bought a Personal Locator Beacon (PLB) when I went to Idaho alone, wolf hunting.

No fees, but strictly for Search and Rescue. I does not have a way to communicate with family or friends.
I couldn't care less about what anybody says..............

Offline MLHSN

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2019, 03:17:06 PM »
+1 for taking extra top layers for changing into if you know you are going to be sweating. Another add for merino wool. Keeps you warm even when wet.

Offline cameronwe

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2019, 06:13:01 PM »
Thanks for all the replies, I've learned a lot and confirmed some things I've been dragging my feet on because I can be a cheap ass-especially the merino. Never mind I went snowshoeing last month, boots were soaks but feet were warm due to a nice pair of wool socks. I was carrying what I thought to be adequate fire starting material: Some fat wood, cotton balls with Vaseline and a couple lighters. I'm not sure I could have started one up there though. I started testing random small branches ant the base of trees as I walked to see if I could find dry stuff. I had the idea that I it might be a good test to see if I could start one, but by that time my hands were too cold. I didn't find anything that I thought I would be able to light..
 I should have had another top layer for sure and maybe bottoms. I had some food and a camel back so I had the very bare min. I was kicking myself because I almost always bring a small tarp (size of a poncho we used to make hooches out of in the Army) but did neglected to do so this time.
  I'm going to have to figure this out as my plans are to try and get deer and bear in 407 or 418 and around here it seems like it's always wet lol.
Thanks again for all the responses and input. I'm going to have to get out again and do some testing with more back up in case things go TU

Offline Dtray332

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2019, 07:55:26 AM »
Hey Cameronwe  Looks like you and I are looking at the same areas. I've also added 448 to my list.  I'll PM you you
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Offline cameronwe

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2019, 09:12:05 AM »
Thanks DTRAY, PM replied

Offline Stein

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2019, 11:08:27 AM »
I bought a Personal Locator Beacon (PLB) when I went to Idaho alone, wolf hunting.

No fees, but strictly for Search and Rescue. I does not have a way to communicate with family or friends.

I carry one of those as well.

The other thing is that as I do more, I realize I wasn't really in as much danger or as close to death as I thought.  I did a non-hunting event several years ago when we had snow in December down in the metro areas.  We rucked overnight in very lightweight clothes as well as taking a plunge in Lake WA and another 4 miles after that.  We kept warm by moving.  A guy could survive an incredibly bad situation by simply doing jumping jacks all night every time he got cold.  Incredibly not fun, but you would make it and have a great story.

Merino is great, I just wish it would last longer at the prices they charge.  Synthetics work 90% as well in my experience, but you smell like rotten death quickly.

Learning to be uncomfortable and dealing with stuff like blisters and wet feet and being cold a skill.  I know many (and used to be) guys that think that blisters will ruin a hunt.  Or, if they get wet feet the hunt is over.  It's a balance between not expecting perfection and having a bit of gear that really helps and a bunch of experience.

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2019, 11:10:45 AM »
I recently picked up the garmin explorer mini, so far it's been good although I didn't get confirmation that a text was sent,  it was, but I didn't know for sure that it went out so I was worried everyone was worried about me, and that put a mini damper on my hunt.   


Offline Stein

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2019, 11:40:03 AM »
I recently picked up the garmin explorer mini, so far it's been good although I didn't get confirmation that a text was sent,  it was, but I didn't know for sure that it went out so I was worried everyone was worried about me, and that put a mini damper on my hunt.

I have the older version and on that one you can go into the sent folder and see which ones were successfully sent, maybe it's the same on the newer ones.  I also have a light that flashes red when it is trying to send and then turns to green once it goes through.

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2019, 11:51:11 AM »
ok cool, I'm still learning the device

Offline HikerHunter

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2019, 08:40:28 AM »
I highly recommend merino wool. They have blends now that are supposed to be more durable but I haven't tried them yet.

Look for sales on merino wool, especially from non-hunting brands. I have stoic and icebreaker shirts in solid colors from discount websites that were more than half off if I remember right. I tried synthetics on a two night hunt once and was surprised at how awful they (and me) smelled...

For shirt and pant base layers, socks, and underwear, I am 100% merino on overnight hunts.

Offline Sandberm

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2019, 09:42:03 AM »
Hasnt been addressed so I will add, ...know your limitations/be honest with yourself.

I hate it but, at 48 years old and overweight I'm not the guy I used to be even just 5 years ago. Being fat at 28 is a big difference than at 48. Rather then get summit fever I try to be realistic. I set a turn around time and stick to it no matter what. If it starts to rain, that turn around time might be sooner rather than later depending on how I'm dressed. I study the weather on the day of the hike, especially the hourly forecast. If its gonna storm at 1pm i want to make sure I'm not too far from being back to my truck.

Offline DWP

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2019, 07:43:49 PM »
Besides all of the good advice on clothes and such I now always carry a tarp and the means to make it into a shelter if needed (stakes, cordage, etc..) and 2 ways to start a fire (usually a film canister with plenty of vaseline soaked cotton balls & lint + some type of synthetic fire starter like Wetfire) with multiple lighters and sometimes rainproof matches.  If stuff gets really bad I can start a fire and wrap the tarp around myself if needed.

I lived on the OP for a long time and never had a situation when I couldn't start a fire...  thought I could handle anything... Then a few years ago I was elk hunting with a buddy in late October/early November in on the Eastside up close to the PCT. It was snowing when we went up and in then it stayed in the low 30's and kept dropping wet snow and rain for 2 days. We couldn't get a fire started at all. Our tents got crushed by wet snow, my down sleeping bag soaked through even inside a fairly good bivy bag because it was crushed underneath everything. Every piece of everything that we tried as fuel for a fire was soaked through, even pulled pitch pockets off trees and put my friend's pocket rocket against them until the canister ran out... nothing would burn and all of our fire starting supplies were used up.

That was a FAST hike down off the mountain. I have since switched to a floorless shelter and pack a titanium stove and small chunks Presto logs (or similar) with me on such trips so I can get an initial fire started the have the means to dry out wood that I have collected.

Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2019, 08:39:52 PM »
Would not want to be in deep without a stove.  Spent days in BC heatless tent with guides pouring water out of their boots each morning and was glad son and I had merino wool that would dry in sleeping bag and kuiu shells we could shake out and dry in cold tent.  Just had to keep insulation layer dry.  Put boots in bottom of sleeping bags to keep from freezing.   Titanium stove would of been so nice. 

Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2019, 09:20:01 PM »
Any of you guys trying the Wim Hof Method of breathing to stay warm?  You'll only need shorts out on the mountain.

Offline Okanagan

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2019, 09:29:10 PM »
Re starting a fire western Washington late seasons...  It is a lot easier to "start" a fire than it is to sustain it.

 If you carry good fire starter items, the initial flame and several minutes is doable, but when it is wet and has been wet for weeks, it is so hard to get a sustainable fire going that on more than one occasion I have given up and put my effort into a dry warm shelter, etc.  At times it is almost impossible to start and sustain a fire in November on the west end of the Peninsula, if you only have pocket and daypack gear.

In a late season N. Cascades timberline bivy in ten inches of wet snow with a wind driven rain coming down, my son and I started a fire as we reached our intended spot just at dark and began to set up camp.  We could keep the fire going only by CONSTANT attention to it.  Turning away long enough to tie up one corner of a shelter, etc. would risk having the fire totally go out. We gave up on a fire that night. I wasn't hunting, just keeping camp, and the next day I spent 2 1/2 hours getting a fire going, with a lock blade knife and saw.  I had a roaring fire by supper that did not go out for two more days.  FWIW, we have been doing this for decades, and are pretty good at deep wet wilderness fires.

 Near a vehicle with axe, big saws, etc. it is easier but with backpack gear, very tough.  So tough I would not count on a fire in such conditions.


Offline hirshey

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #36 on: March 12, 2019, 02:22:05 PM »
Lots of great learning points in this!

I’ll stress my favorites from previous contributors:
- bring extra layers
- gaiters are your friend
-communication devices (I really like my older Delorme In-Reach)
-fire starting implements

Irregardless of the season, to the best of my ability I try to start out with an appropriate outer layer for moisture, sun, branches or insects  (I’ll endorse either Kuiu or Outdoor Research with the pit zips for rain gear and shell layers) and plan to start out hiking as cold as I can for the first few minutes. For example, for me that means in situations with wet snow flurries, I’m hiking in an outer shell and only a t-shirt below. If I stop to take a break or glass for extended periods of time, I relayer with the clothing I bring... which is always a minimum of the following:

Shell outer layer
Ball cap
Beanie
Gaiters
Puff jacket
Gloves (I love the fingerless wool gloves Outdoor Research sold... the removable mitten part has a magnet clasp to secure it when you fold them off... much better than Velcro!)
Merino performance t-shirt, long sleeve, and long underwear...

And a couple pairs of hand and toe warmers.

If I’m hiking and not hunting, my S&W .38 special is always in tow, too.

I find the less I allow moisture and sweat through those layers, the more assured and confident I am in continuing to stretch my boundaries.

I’m glad you’re out getting after it!

I am not opposed to golf, for I suspect it keeps armies of the unworthy from discovering deer.

Offline yakimanoob

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2019, 10:31:56 AM »
@cameronwe sounds like you made good decisions, and there's lots of good advice on here. 

I'll describe my layering strategy, but more importantly I cannot stress highly enough the need to let someone know where you're going, when to expect you back, AND carry a means of communication.

For context, if you're carrying a locator beacon like a SPOT or inReach and fire the SOS signal, in most hunting areas the local Search and Rescue team is still going to be 4-5 hours out before they can mobilize and hike into your location.  Again that's IF they immediately know exactly where you are.  If they only know the area/trailhead, you're more likely 12-36 hrs from being found, and you need to be able to survive on your own for that long before help arrives.  Helicopter rescues are uncommon and are typically the most dangerous option, so they're usually the last resort. 

The only other warning I have for you is to remember that hypothermia is a mean demon that will screw with your brain.  If you get too cold, your decision-making process can go totally haywire.  I think two years ago (maybe three?) there was a hunter that got hypothermic and they found him deceased, nude, about 30 yards from his truck--he had stripped down under the impression that he was too hot.  So I'll echo the kudos to you for getting out of there when things didn't go your way.


For my part, I'll echo what others have said that it's a fools errand in most parts of WA to stay completely dry, so my strategy is along the lines of what many through-hikers use: accept that you're going to get wet, and carry a set of dry clothes for when the physical activity slows down.  Just make SURE you get back into those wet clothes before picking back up the activities that got you wet in the first place.  You can do this pretty well with only two sets of clothes if you learn to accept the discomfort of putting wet, cold clothes back on.  Modern wool and synthetic insulations are amazing, and will keep you surprisingly warm when you're soaked (as long as you're moving around a little bit).  If you're in camp or sitting down for a long glassing session, think about putting those dry clothes on.

My day hunt layers include a wool shirt, a synthetic midlayer, and a shell jacket. If I'm in for a wet slog up a hillside, I either just wear the shirt or the shirt + shell if it's cold.  You WILL get wet under the shell, but it does a good job of breaking the wind and keeping some warmth where it needs to be.  Once I get to my glassing spot, I'll throw on a fresh shirt, don the midlayer, and put the shell on top and that keeps me plenty warm in most conditions.  If it's really cold, I'll add a puffy down jacket, long undies, rain pants, or any combination thereof to the mix. 

The reality is that layering is an art that is specific to YOU.  What works for me might not work for you, and vice versa. 

Make sure you can call for help if you need it.  Make sure you can get warm and survive for a couple days if things go totally south.  And get out there and have a whole lot of Type 2 fun while you learn what works for you on the layering front!  :).   
"master" hunter - still a noob.

Offline msg

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Re: Put myself in a potentially bad spot-looking for input
« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2019, 09:35:24 AM »
A lot of very good info here from people that have learned over the years. No doubt with a fair amount of suffering in the younger years. We have seen people near timberline on St. Helens in a snowstorm. They had somehow managed to kill a bull and had no clue how to gut and butcher. They wore tennis shoes and nylon windbreakers, all soaking wet. The young lady was shivering uncontrollably . Boy Scout Motto is Be Prepared. Extra changes as mentioned by many above is the key. Good merino wool is one of my favorites, especially socks. Nothing like getting rid of sweaty socks. Boots, nothing fits my feet better than Kenetreks. Right out of the box, pure heaven. Expensive, yes but worth it. I also carry a small Esbit stove that weighs virtually nothing. A cup of soup or hot chocolate on a wet cold day with some dry clothes will adjust your attitude and make you eager to hunt instead of heading to the truck

 


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