POLL: Deer Herd Decline, Why?

[JimmyHoffa]

I see so many deer thriving in suburbia here wetside so habitat isn't as much issue as eastern or mulies.  Harvest management does change the buck quality but #'s are high here except where cougars thrive.  Heck wife seen roadkill cougar today on main hiway close to town.  Cats have been big problem around these parts for a decade at least.

Cougars from what I've seen.  Lots of chewed up fawn skeletons and hair when out scouting in the summer.  Of all the does with fawns early, not so many when seasons start...does with does and maybe a fawn and one or two previous year's yearling.  Get into town and more blacktail than you count, but don't see cougars in town much.

[JimmyHoffa]

I notice many people blaming cougars. Is there any data to support these theories? I don't doubt that the big cats might be the largest contributor, just wondering how some come up with that justification.

This is the real problem, I think. When populations do decline (even for a year or two, or over decades), when there is no state or unit-level population data, no one knows what causes it. Then everyone makes up a theory that sounds good. And they're probably all right to some degree. But there's no data. We have harvest numbers by unit, but no studies that get to the real questions hunters and everyone else is rightly asking.
Maybe it's a funding issue, I don't know.

When WDFW has their fawn count with all the volunteers, they seem to do it in May/early June and then talk about how many deer must be out in the woods and how healthy the herd is.  The Makah tribe did a study where they collared a bunch of fawns and tracked them over time.  Cougars and bobcats were feasting well, the take by bobcats surprised me most, though.

[Tracker0721]

Should say in general Mulies aren’t doing so hot in our state but in my specific area I’ve seen them more and in larger groups. Also work in the feed store and everyone talks about the deer they’re feeding and all have noted less whitetails and more mule deer. Also more elk.

[JBar]

I didn't vote here's why!
Mule deer all of the above in the areas I hunt, over run with regular season hunters, easily poached, susceptible to fires and hard winters with decreased winter habitat pushes these deer low and onto/near highways and concentrated for easy pickings by Cougars just to summarize a bit.

Blacktails cats, cats, bears and coyotes oh did I mention cats! Poaching is a problem even on private timber lands. Regular season harvest is below average the last 5 or 6 years and hunter numbers have been down.

The whitetails?? Not sure but I think the blue tongue outbreak a couple years ago took care of the majority of the whitetails in the area I hunt, no experience other than my small area.

[Pinetar]

 

How can you say to much harvest when there are less hunters in the woods?

Better technology, makes for higher harvest rates. simple
[/quote]

And all the Any Weapon Tags makes for higher harvest rates. If you hunt all the seasons with all three weapons and aren't too picky it isn't very hard to fill your tag.

[Tbar]

I notice many people blaming cougars. Is there any data to support these theories? I don't doubt that the big cats might be the largest contributor, just wondering how some come up with that justification.

Mine was a guess that seemed like a logical guess. No science involved. There are a lot of cougars and they kill a lot of deer.
Since you asked, I hit the googler.
http://westernwildlife.org/cougar-outreach-project/biology-behavior/
"In North America, deer constitute about 60% of the cougar’s diet, though in Washington this percentage is much higher. Adult cougars also prey on elk, mountain goats, moose and bighorn sheep.

Adult cougars, as well as younger animals, also opportunistically prey on smaller species such as coyotes, rabbits, rodents and raccoons, as well as pets and livestock on occasion.

According to the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife, a large male cougar living in the Cascade Mountains will kill one deer or elk every 9 to 12 days, eating up to 20 pounds at a time and caching the rest for later. These caches provide food benefits for many other species."

http://westernwildlife.org/cougar-outreach-project/legal-status-management/
"Cougars are solitary, and are difficult to track and study; therefore it is difficult to accurately estimate statewide cougar populations. But based on six studies in Washington, the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife estimates the adult cougar population size is about 1,900 to 2,100 animals."

Given those numbers...if a cougar killed a deer or elk every 12 days, that would be 30.4 elk or deer per year per cougar. Take that number multiplied by 1900 and it's a crap ton of deer and elk.

Looks like there won't be any deer or elk in a few years.

[Stein]

I live in Arlington, so habitat loss is the clear winner.

[elksnout]

Habitat loss for blacktails. Huge reduction in logging on national forest land where up until 15-20 years ago it was killer hunting. Moonscape clear cuts on state land with zero feed for the first 5 or so years. Luxury and recreation homes in what once was prime hunting grounds. Sucks.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

I voted habitat loss because here on the Olympic Peninsula, changes in logging and how tree farms are managed has really affected the herds here. For Starters, The National Forest Doesn't get much logging compared to the past so There isn't as much feed as there was say back in the 70s and 80s.  But another biggie is the commercial tree farms have turned into mono culture deserts. Growing up in the 60s and 70s the forests were a good mix of hardwood and softwoods.  You could still find a good alder patch or big leaf maple stand and anyone who's hunted blacktails knows how much they love alder/fern/salmonberry/maple patches.  The mixed forests of those days were much better hunting than the all fir forests of today. The clearcuts are still good as food producers when they aren't being sprayed with roundup equivalent to kill the hardwoods sprouting up, but once they get to an age that strangles out most other plants, they aren't good for much except bedding areas.

But if I hadn't voted for habitat, I'd have voted coyotes. They do incalculable damage killing fawns and probably kill more fawns than any other animal. Here's a story of a study done in Michigan.  http://www.timberwolfinformation.org/mi-experts-surprised-by-which-predator-is-no-1-killer-of-deer-in-michigans-upper-peninsula/

[Karl Blanchard]

That's a good point sitka.  Habitat loss doesnt necessarily mean acreage torn up and developed.  Habit loss can also mean changed in ways that no longer support animal numbers

[PlateauNDN]

Mismanagement of predator and prey species as well as mismanagement by many agencies.














and injuns... 

[Tbar]

That's a good point sitka.  Habitat loss doesnt necessarily mean acreage torn up and developed.  Habit loss can also mean changed in ways that no longer support animal numbers

Excellent post sitka! Preservation vs conservation as well as industrial timber practices have been a huge factor in my experience. That said industrial timber shoulders about the only habitat we have left albeit degraded.

[bearpaw]

I notice many people blaming cougars. Is there any data to support these theories? I don't doubt that the big cats might be the largest contributor, just wondering how some come up with that justification.

Mine was a guess that seemed like a logical guess. No science involved. There are a lot of cougars and they kill a lot of deer.
Since you asked, I hit the googler.
http://westernwildlife.org/cougar-outreach-project/biology-behavior/
"In North America, deer constitute about 60% of the cougar’s diet, though in Washington this percentage is much higher. Adult cougars also prey on elk, mountain goats, moose and bighorn sheep.

Adult cougars, as well as younger animals, also opportunistically prey on smaller species such as coyotes, rabbits, rodents and raccoons, as well as pets and livestock on occasion.

According to the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife, a large male cougar living in the Cascade Mountains will kill one deer or elk every 9 to 12 days, eating up to 20 pounds at a time and caching the rest for later. These caches provide food benefits for many other species."

http://westernwildlife.org/cougar-outreach-project/legal-status-management/
"Cougars are solitary, and are difficult to track and study; therefore it is difficult to accurately estimate statewide cougar populations. But based on six studies in Washington, the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife estimates the adult cougar population size is about 1,900 to 2,100 animals."

Given those numbers...if a cougar killed a deer or elk every 12 days, that would be 30.4 elk or deer per year per cougar. Take that number multiplied by 1900 and it's a crap ton of deer and elk.

Looks like there won't be any deer or elk in a few years.

There have been several government studies in states through the years, links have been posted in the past, but the numbers on the links jackelope posted look simlar to what other studies have shown (25 to 50 per year).

Let's say there are 3000 cougar in WA, (that is a conservative number), at 30.4 the total is 91,200 animals per year. Even if cougar were only eating half that many, it would still be 45,600.

Now consider that there might be as many as 4000 or more (they don't know for sure how many) cougar in WA!

[huntnnw]

 Its not just one issue. Its a combo of winters in the past, to much hunting pressure such as to many doe tags in some areas,loss of wintering areas due to fires, disease in some areas, predators are in my eyes a huge part of the problem. Its staggering the amount of predators I get on cam today versus 10 years ago.

[huntnnw]

Our Mulies seem good

 

wow!