Copper fouling cleaning process

[7mmfan]

I did a quick search. but I'm really looking for some step by step advice on cleaning copper fouling in a rifle. I have Ruger M77 MKII 7mag, that I've owned for almost 20 years. My guess is I have somewhere between 2000 - 2500 rounds through this rifle. I have never cleaned the rifle for copper fouling in all that time. My last shoot last week my groups at a hundred yards were pathetic. My guess is some of that was me, but I've never experienced what I had last week. So my question to you guys is can you give me a step-by-step process for removing copper fouling, and suggestions on the best solvent to use? I understand that this may not be the problem, but it's a good first step and it won't hurt.

[Magnum_Willys]

I use boretech eliminator for general cleaning. For copper majority agrees kg12 is one of the best. Push a couple wet patches through.   20 passes with a soaked nylon brush.  Another couple patches then wet patch and let soak for 15 mins.  Repeat until swab with boretech is clean ( not blue).   

[ctwiggs1]

Wait, you own a 7mm?!

[7mmfan]

Wait, you own a 7mm?!

I know right? Not sure how that got in the safe.

[Tracker0721]

Haha 2500 rounds through a factory barrel 7mm? Maybe it’s more then the copper fouling. Coulda burned the throat out.

[Stein]

I use Sweet's 7.62, just follow the directions and wear gloves in a ventilated area.  I've heard guys use any of the major brands and they all seem to work.

[Crunchy]

I use Sweet's 7.62, just follow the directions and wear gloves in a ventilated area.  I've heard guys use any of the major brands and they all seem to work.

Another Sweet's user here.  Good stuff.

[hunterofelk]

I had a kit from Outers that used electroplating to get the copper out, but I have almost used all the electrolyte and Outers doesn't sell that kit anymore.  Worked great.  I looked at some online chat forums and there are posts on how to make your own kit.  That is not me.  Not a chemistry student. 
I am going to try J-B non-embedding compound, a lot of good reviews on the Amazon page. 

[jasnt]

Another vote for boretech but I’m guessing the barrel is toast. That’s how most my barrels go out. Shooting great then flyers and speed deviation goes every which way.

[Bushcraft]

First, I'd recommend checking the torque settings on your action and scope mounting screws.  One or two may have backed out on you.

Boretech Eliminator is a great product to get most everything out of your barrels. You may have to resort to a copper solvent once the worst of the build-up in your rifle has been removed. Boretech Cu+2 is pretty decent, doesn't reek and won't create other problems like some other copper solvents.

Keep in mind that once you have removed every bit of carbon and copper from your barrel you may have to build up some of the copper gilding and carbon fouling before it begins to shoot well again. After I've completely stripped a barrel, I'll shoot once, remove carbon, and repeat maybe 5-6 times before I go to shooting regularly.

Also, keep in mind that a lot of this cleaning, fouling and maintenance stuff is a bit on the witch doctor side.  Two of my friends are some of the top shooters in the nation (in PRS & NRL). One is a religious fanatic about his rifle break-in and cleaning process. The other just screws a barrel on and never bothers cleaning it. When it stops shooting he just tosses it and screws on another one.  I'm in the former camp since I am not yet sponsored by a barrel manufacturer and want to get at least another 500-600 good rounds out of my competition guns.

Lastly, and this has already been mentioned...sorry to break it to you but with 2,000 to 2,500 of 7mm Mag down the pipe, you're barrel is either already toast or on the verge.  You can get a boreskope and check it out, but I'll bet your throat is deeply cracked and pitted (which doesn't necessarily tell you the whole accuracy story).

Time to screw on a new one!   

[7mmfan]

I knew that there was a good chance the rifle was on the verge of being wore all the way out. I've done A LOT of shooting with it. When I got the rifle at 16, dad had never owned a new rifle, so none of us even knew the concept of breaking a barrel in. Just hit the woods and shoot 40 rounds through it, so hot you could fry an egg. I shot like that for a long time. It wasn't until I bought my next rifle that I was clued into actually taking care of them.

All that being said, this rifle has been a dead ringer for a long time, so I'm hoping it can be salvaged. I'm going to start with stripping the barrel and making sure that isn't the problem, and then go from there.

Thanks for the advice guys, I appreciate it.

[N7XW]

Please keep us posted on the results 

[7mmfan]

So I decided to go with The Eliminator product by Bore Tech. I got it along with the CU + 2 copper remover. Did a full round with The Eliminator until my dry patches came clean, and then ran a slightly dampened patch through and it came out blue. So did a full Regiment of the CU + 2 copper remover until my dry patches came clean and then ran a damp patch through and it came out blue. You suggest Just Keep On Keepin On until they all come out clean?

[Crunchy]

The blue isnt coming from the cleaning rod adapter?

[Bushcraft]

I'm not surprised at all. It may take several applications of the copper remover if you've never attempted to remove it after that many rounds.  Agitate the hell out of it with a nylon brush and let it soak a good long while.

Alternatively, you could just sell the heavily coppered barrel to a meth-head. 

[7mmfan]

When you guys say "soak"  do you actually mean to physically plug the barrel and fill it full of solvent? Or just let it set after the last saturated patch goes through?

[7mmfan]

The blue isnt coming from the cleaning rod adapter?

No I don't think so. They are plastic adaptors and I clean everything before running that last patch through.

[Magnum_Willys]

Soak to me means just wet patch thru and wait

[jasnt]

Do not fill the barrel.  And do not soak longer than 15 min.  At a time.  That stuff eats everything.  Follow the directions and if any part your using has brass you’ll get false positives. Get it as clean as you can and go try it.  Like I said before I’d bet money your bore is toast.  If copper was the problem taking out even just 25% would have it back to shooting

[yorketransport]

That barrel is smoked man, let it go!

I still used Barnes CR-10 if a barrel gets really bad.

[jasnt]

Best part is now you get a barrel exactly as you want it

[Karl Blanchard]

That barrel is smoked man, let it go!

I still used Barnes CR-10 if a barrel gets really bad.

  even if you regain some accuracy after cleaning for copper, its gonna be short lived with that round count. I personally wouldn't waste any more rounds on it. Spin up a new one and be proud you torched a barrel. Most can't claim that

[7mmfan]

Man talk about peer pressure! I'm sure my wife will be thrilled to know I need to rebarrel my rifle.

I was able to get it satisfactorily clean on the 3 round. No blue on dry patches, barely the slightest hint on a patch with a little solution on it.

Probably won't get out this weekend or next week to shoot so I'll have to wait a bit to see if my efforts were worth it. I'll start rat holing money in the mean time for a new carbon fiber barrel

[7mmfan]

Never been a quitter before, not going to start now!    I'm just stubborn and want to see it through. If the consensus is that it's toast, it probably is,  but I need exhaust my options.

[jasnt]

Never been a quitter before, not going to start now!    I'm just stubborn and want to see it through. If the consensus is that it's toast, it probably is,  but I need exhaust my options.

thats the spirit. I still shoot one of my toasted rifles. It’s a rem 770 so not possible to rebarrel but I can still get min of deer.  Rebarrel is cheaper than replacing the rifle in most cases.   You going to go 7 rm again or change it up? 7/300wm?

[7mmfan]

I'd have a hard time leaving the 7mm. I've killed a lot of game with that round and have a ton of confidence in it. Plus I have a very very accurate hand load dialed in, although I suppose that'll change with a new Barrel.

[Karl Blanchard]

I'd have a hard time leaving the 7mm. I've killed a lot of game with that round and have a ton of confidence in it. Plus I have a very very accurate hand load dialed in, although I suppose that'll change with a new Barrel.

you'd have to change your handle too

[7mmfan]

I'd have a hard time leaving the 7mm. I've killed a lot of game with that round and have a ton of confidence in it. Plus I have a very very accurate hand load dialed in, although I suppose that'll change with a new Barrel.

you'd have to change your handle too

And theres that. I'm clearly vested in the caliber., and since I'm not as brave as you guys using your real names I'll just have to leave it. Besides, who would want to be friends with "used2b7mmfan"

[jasnt]

I'd have a hard time leaving the 7mm. I've killed a lot of game with that round and have a ton of confidence in it. Plus I have a very very accurate hand load dialed in, although I suppose that'll change with a new Barrel.

you'd have to change your handle too

And theres that. I'm clearly vested in the caliber., and since I'm not as brave as you guys using your real names I'll just have to leave it. Besides, who would want to be friends with "used2b7mmfan"

[coachcw]

Do you need to borrow a rifle ?

[BigGoonTuna]

i've found myself using kg12 and wipe-out a lot lately.  i've never seen a bore so copper fouled as my 270 last week when i made a quick run to the gravel pit to chronograph some experimental powder charges, and ran about 20 normal bullets through after shooting some barnes TTSX bullets.  inside of the barrel was orange, not just next to the lands, haven't done that before.

i like to do a soak for about a half hour with the wipe out to break up the powder and carbon(and some copper), then go to town with the KG12.  run a couple wet patches through, then a wet brush back and forth 15-20 times, let sit a few minutes, repeat as necessary.  usually doesn't take too long.  way faster than using CR10 or montana extreme, and you don't give yourself a headache with ammonia fumes either.  if i use montana extreme or cr10, i'll randomly get a whiff of ammonia a few times for a few days afterward

[7mmfan]

I cleaned my 7mm-08 today just for the heck of it, and I had it apparently copper free in one round with The Eliminator solution. That stuff seems to work quite well. Now I just need to mount a scope on it and get a load dialed in. I'm counting on it to be my backup rifle for this season.

[7mmfan]

Do you need to borrow a rifle ?

Maybe I'll borrow that fancy 6.5 you're always bragging about!

[coachcw]

Do you need to borrow a rifle ?

Maybe I'll borrow that fancy 6.5 you're always bragging about!

Any time buddy !

[7mmfan]

Quickly revisiting this. I've cleaned both my 7 mag and 7mm-08 with the CU+2 copper cleaner. I feel good about all that. It was mentioned earlier that by doing a very thorough copper removal, a guy needs to refoul, or recondition the barrel slightly before it will shoot like it used it if everything is still functioning properly. Is there a proven process for this? Clean with powder solvent every shot for 5 or 10 shots? something like that?

[BULLBLASTER]

Just shoot it.

[7mmfan]

Just shoot it.

I figured I was overthinking this. Par for the course.

[BULLBLASTER]

Just shoot it.

I figured I was overthinking this. Par for the course.

[Magnum_Willys]

The breakin process is because rough machining edges scrape copper off the bullet which fouls barrel .  After 10 or 20 rounds these marks are smoothed out.   Don’t need to do it again.   But your rifle may “settle down” after normal cleaning after 3-6 shots and be accurate for the next 20-200 shots.   Each one is different.   I like to clean, shoot one fouling shot then good for next 30 rounds. 

[7mmfan]

Alright, thanks for the insight.

[Stein]

Yeah, once it is shot enough to smooth out the tooling marks all you need to do is lay down a tiny amount of copper in the barrel by shooting it a few times.  After that, every bullet will see as close to the same thing as possible.  If you continually strip copper out, the first few bullets will end up leaving some of their copper behind and will more than likely impact differently than those later on that see a coppered barrel.

It's all voodoo in the end and everyone has their favorite theory.  Personally, I don't clean often, maybe once a year and that is mostly for rust prevention.  When I do clean, it's just patches and solvent, never copper cleaner.  This is for normal use, maybe a 100-200 hundred rounds a year on a very heavy use year where I am working on load development and a box or two on a normal year.  If I shot matches and did a thousand rounds a year I may think differently.

With my barrel, I can clean with 1-2 wet patches, dry and light oil, 3-4 patches total and five minutes tops.

[Yondering]

i've found myself using kg12 and wipe-out a lot lately.  i've never seen a bore so copper fouled as my 270 last week when i made a quick run to the gravel pit to chronograph some experimental powder charges, and ran about 20 normal bullets through after shooting some barnes TTSX bullets.  inside of the barrel was orange, not just next to the lands, haven't done that before.

i like to do a soak for about a half hour with the wipe out to break up the powder and carbon(and some copper), then go to town with the KG12.  run a couple wet patches through, then a wet brush back and forth 15-20 times, let sit a few minutes, repeat as necessary.  usually doesn't take too long.  way faster than using CR10 or montana extreme, and you don't give yourself a headache with ammonia fumes either.  if i use montana extreme or cr10, i'll randomly get a whiff of ammonia a few times for a few days afterward

If you're using Wipe-out anyway, you could just skip the KG12 and do another soak or two with Wipe-out. That stuff does way more for copper fouling than for carbon buildup anyway.

Personally I do an initial 30 min to 1 hour soak with Wipe-out, and if the bore still has copper visible I'll do another one overnight. That's adequate to get the copper out of even bad fouling barrels, and leaves a lot less opportunity to wear the bore with excessive scrubbing. After cleaning out the Wipe-out, I just oil the bore and put it away.

[rodell]

I'm a chemical junkie; I'll try anything new to see how it works.

If you are in no hurry, the wipeout foam or liquid with the accelerator is really great stuff.  I always use the accelerator.

If I need to finish quickly, then the Boretech products are the ones I've settled on.

Sweet's works very well, but is water-based. It will etch the bore if you aren't careful. I have it but never use it any more.

[7mmfan]

Update. Went and shot today. 7 mag is back to MOA. First 3 groups were sub MOA, last one had a flier put it just over 1". I think she's back! At least for a while.

Shot the 7mm-08 that I recent floated and bedded as well. Best that this rifle has ever shot. Very happy with how that turned out. Working on load testing tomorrow for it.