Knight UL Peep / Globe sight question.

[steeliedrew]

Hello, I’ve got a Knight Ultralight and am looking to convert to a Williams FP Legend peep and a Lyman globe up front with the Lee Shaver globe inserts. From the research I’ve done I see that a slight stock modification will need to be done to run the Williams FP on the Knight UL. I’m ok with that.

Question is...does anyone know what size globe and ramp I’ll need for the front?  Thanks for any help.

Drew


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[beauhunter]

I was told by Williams you want the lowest ramp possible, like a Williams shorty .125, I deal with muzzloader.com as well they are very knowledgeable 855-236-5000

[Sabotloader]

The only ramo that that will fit a Knight is the:

Williams Streamlined Ramp 3/16" Screw-on with 1.625 hole spacing
Mfr Part: 1690

Complete list...

Two screws for the ramp...  These are from Brownells



962-020-097WB
Streamlined Ramp 3/16" Screw-on
Mfr Part: 1690

I believe Williams says a .375N front sight for this application - I prefer a .343N as it fit closer to center under a fires sight hood.



962-564-360WB
Red Fire Sight fits 375N
Mfr Part: 56436



962-000-016WB
Fire Sight Hood
Mfr Part: 70031

Be aware that the Williams FP Knight Legend peep sight will not fit on a Ulite without modifying the stock.  The stock is to thick.

[steeliedrew]

Thanks for the replies guys.

 Sabotloader,

Few questions for you.

1.) what did you use to notch out the stock to get the FP to fit? And did you apply any paint to the notch?

2.) how do you feel about the FP over the WGRS? Worth the stock modification?

3.) is the fire sight fiber optic any smaller than the factory front sight? I was leaning towards going with a globe with the lee shaver fine crosshair insert. Any reason you went the fire sight route instead of a globe with insert? Currently I’m feeling like the factory sights cover a  good amount of the target. Maybe it’s mental but I like to see what’s below the fiber optic as well.  Just like I would putting the crosshair from my rifle scope on a target or settling the pin of my bow sight on a target. That’s the sight picture I’m most comfortable with I guess.

Thanks!

[Sabotloader]

Thanks for the replies guys.

 Sabotloader,

Few questions for you.

1.) what did you use to notch out the stock to get the FP to fit? And did you apply any paint to the notch?

I did not make this modification, a fellow forum member up in the sound area did it.  So I am not sure what he did.  I am thinking he did using a mil table.  But, I did read the other day that one guy did using these pics using a Dremel Tool and files.

Yes, the area have to be repainted.

2.) how do you feel about the FP over the WGRS? Worth the stock modification?

I really like the FP because of its adjustability - but really in real life most of the time when you have the WGRS set you leave it alone and just shoot.

3.) is the fire sight fiber optic any smaller than the factory front sight?

No they are the same size.  The size does not bother me as I use a 8 o'clock hold on the target. Like shown in figure H.

I was leaning towards going with a globe with the lee shaver fine crosshair insert. Any reason you went the fire sight route instead of a globe with insert?

I remember using a globe front sight back in high school shooting on the rifle team - but I really have very little experience with them so I went with the fiber optic.

Currently I’m feeling like the factory sights cover a  good amount of the target. Maybe it’s mental but I like to see what’s below the fiber optic as well.  Just like I would putting the crosshair from my rifle scope on a target or settling the pin of my bow sight on a target. That’s the sight picture I’m most comfortable with I guess.

Thanks!

I totally understand what you are talking about.  But using the 8 o'clock hold solves the problem for me. I am not concerned with what is directly below as long as I know the bullet is going to hit above the top of the optic bead.

I also use a method called 'Point Blank Range' for sighting in.  With a ML I have learned that if I sight to have the bullet impact right at 3" high at 100 - I can use the same sight picture out to about 175 yards and never be any higher than 3" not lower than #" through that range.

Just works for me...

mike

[steeliedrew]

Thank you Sabotloader. Are you meaning to say 6 o’clock hold? I use a 6 o’clock hold. At 50 yards I can get a touching group. It starts to open up around 100 yards. Shooting .50 300 grain SST’s with 100 and 150 grain charges of Pyrodex. Shot touching group at 50 with 100 grains of Pyrodex but then group was opening up at 100 and tried a couple shots with 150 grains of Pyrodex and that seemed to tighten it up. I’ll likely do some more thorough load development this year but figured I’d also address the sights while I’m at it. Going to hunt early Muzzleloader deer the way I’m currently set up and sighted for now. Just will limit my max range.

[steeliedrew]

Quick question on the front sights. So along with the streamlined hoodlesa ramp #1690 what size globe would I want if I were to get one of the Lyman Target Globes instead of running a firesight with a hood? Does the #17AHB .404” height sound right? I believe that’s the lowest one.

[Sabotloader]

Thank you Sabotloader. Are you meaning to say 6 o’clock hold? I use a 6 o’clock hold.

Correct that is exactly right... just had the figure 8 on my mind with the lower circle being the bead and the upper circle being the target   

At 50 yards I can get a touching group. It starts to open up around 100 yards. Shooting .50 300 grain SST’s with 100 and 150 grain charges of Pyrodex. Shot touching group at 50 with 100 grains of Pyrodex but then group was opening up at 100 and tried a couple shots with 150 grains of Pyrodex and that seemed to tighten it up. I’ll likely do some more thorough load development this year but figured I’d also address the sights while I’m at it. Going to hunt early Muzzleloader deer the way I’m currently set up and sighted for now. Just will limit my max range.

What size group are you getting at 100?  The group opening @ 100 is not uncommon at all.  Most all can shoot groups of 1 1/2" at 100 with a scope but when you start dealing with open sights a little difference can make a big difference.  + in a 100 yards 'mother nature' has more time to work on the bullet going down range.

[Sabotloader]

Quick question on the front sights. So along with the streamlined hoodlesa ramp #1690 what size globe would I want if I were to get one of the Lyman Target Globes instead of running a firesight with a hood? Does the #17AHB .404” height sound right? I believe that’s the lowest one.

I honestly do not know I have never fooled around with them at all or even had an interest.  I shot a four power scope with a post for years so the for me the bead of the front sight is a 'post' in a 1X scope as I look through the front sight.

[steeliedrew]

What size group are you getting at 100?  The group opening @ 100 is not uncommon at all.  Most all can shoot groups of 1 1/2" at 100 with a scope but when you start dealing with open sights a little difference can make a big difference.  + in a 100 yards 'mother nature' has more time to work on the bullet going down range.

Probably 4 or 5” I was shooting prone off a bipod on a gravel road though. I felt like it was jumping pretty good on the recoil. May have been pulling shots a bit.  Last shot at 100 I hit a couple inches high and a touch left of the X though. That shot I was using my pack as a rest and felt much more solid. I really need to get myself a bench and some sandbags for sighting in.

[Sabotloader]

What size group are you getting at 100?  The group opening @ 100 is not uncommon at all.  Most all can shoot groups of 1 1/2" at 100 with a scope but when you start dealing with open sights a little difference can make a big difference.  + in a 100 yards 'mother nature' has more time to work on the bullet going down range.

Probably 4 or 5” I was shooting prone off a bipod on a gravel road though. I felt like it was jumping pretty good on the recoil. May have been pulling shots a bit. Last shot at 100 I hit a couple inches high and a touch left of the X though. That shot I was using my pack as a rest and felt much more solid. I really need to get myself a bench and some sandbags for sighting in.

See that really makes good sense....

I remember when I use to shoot prone for rifle team I got really pretty god at it... but I do not think I would ever be as accurate as I am with a bench and rests... And my setup is far from being great..

[Reidus]

Quick question on the front sights. So along with the streamlined hoodlesa ramp #1690 what size globe would I want if I were to get one of the Lyman Target Globes instead of running a firesight with a hood? Does the #17AHB .404” height sound right? I believe that’s the lowest one.

Yes the #17AHB is the correct one. The lee Shaver crosshair is pretty fine and can be difficult to see in low light. I'm pretty sure I could shoot pretty well without an insert in the globe sight so not really an issue. It's nice to be able to see the whole target when shooting, especially at longer ranges.

[steeliedrew]

Yes the #17AHB is the correct one. The lee Shaver crosshair is pretty fine and can be difficult to see in low light. I'm pretty sure I could shoot pretty well without an insert in the globe sight so not really an issue. It's nice to be able to see the whole target when shooting, especially at longer ranges.

Nice! I went ahead and ordered it off amazon and got a Williams WGRS on the way from Muzzle-Loaders.com. I have a buddy who might be able to machine me a ramp. but if not I’ll order up a #1690. I decided to go with the WGRS to start. Figured I’d make sure I like a peep before going with an FP and modifying the stock.

[steeliedrew]

That’s a sweet setup Sabotloader. I need something like that!

[steeliedrew]

Here’s two shots at 50 yards after I had sent a few and was feeling warmed up. Between shots I ran a pre-moistened knight cleaning patch and a dry patch. I’m quite new to Muzzleloaders but seemed like a good idea. I also use TC bore butter to finish off my cleanings.



Here’s a third for confirmation.



Since I was pretty much dead on at 50 I adjusted elevation up and windage just a hair and started shooting at 100. I don’t have a pic of the group at 100 but I wasn’t impressed. As I said earlier it was probably a 4-5” group. But I do think shooting off the bipod prone on a gravel road wasn’t the best. Once I got a good rest off of my pack the last shot felt much better and this was the result. 150 grains Pyrodex and 300 grain SST prone off of my pack.



Would have shot more but I wasn’t prepared and only had enough supplies to take 14 shots the other day. I’m having a lot of fun with the ultralite though. I just want to shoot this thing all the dang time now.




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