Unhappy with Triple 7 Pellets

[curtdiesel]

Last year I used a musket cap Knight Bighorn with 3 50 grain pyrodex pellets and 300gr TC Shockwave .50 cal bullets.  It worked extremely well and I really liked it.  The gun was not mine.  I borrowed it to see how much I would like MuzzleLoaders. 

This year I purchased a 209 bare primer Knight Ultralite.  I have been using Triple 7 pellets and the same 300gr TC Shockwave .50 cal bullets with Winchester blue box 209 primers.  I have not been happy with the Triple 7 pellets.  I don't like having to swab between shots.  2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th shots get very hard to load.  The ram rod does not go as far into the barrel when loading follow up shots.  Is there really that much fowling and residue taking up the extra space?

I am planning to try Blackhorn 209 loose powder.  I am hoping it will load better and more consistently.  What is some of the best equipment I should get to make loading easy?  I am hoping to find a good speed loader that would hold my 300 grain T/C Shockwave bullet, 120 volumetric units of blackthorn 209, and a Federal 209a or Winchester primer.  It would be great if it had a bullet starter/palm saver but that could be separate and something else that I am looking for opinions on which one to get.

I am planning to replace my Easton Ramrod with a SpinJag ramrod with original spinjag.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Curt

[CP]

Too much powder; it isn't all burning and it's leaving a lot of crude behind.  Try 100g of loose Triple 7.  You should get 3 shots before you need to clean and you will probably get a higher velocity

[jackelope]

I'm relatively new to muzzleloading, but that's a ton of powder.

[Smokeploe]

With black powder and substitutes you need to listen for that sharp crack when the bullet leaves the barrel. It helps to have someone standing off to one side listening.
When you get that then play with the load to get the accuracy you want, that will be +\-  10-15%, any thing more than that you are just wasting powder you don't get any more benefit from more powder.   This was taught to me by a gentleman who was in his eighthies,  back in the late 1960's.  He only used a Kentucky long rifle 50 cal., nothing else.  To prove that we laid two white bed sheets out on the ground end to end in front of the barrel and loaded and shot loads up to 120 grains with a 325 gr real bullet 50 cal. .  The load for my rifle was using 82 grains of 3f.  Above 95 grains there was a large amount of unburned powder on the sheets, the higher the charge the more unburned powder.
These newer substitutes are still configured to burn like black powder, the results should be the same.  I have not used them I like what I use in my long rifle, which is 5" longer than the newer rifle today, so I could use more powder than most.

Smokeploe

[M_ray]

100gr of pellets and 100gr will burn differently based on the ignition. Sounds like the 209 you have isnt hot enough to burn all the podwer. changing to loose may help nut you may also have to drop to 85-90 gr to burn it all. A good way to check this is put a tarp out on the ground out in front of your bench and see how much un burnt powder is on it after a shot.

I said it on another thread here recently too and that is just because it worked on your old gun doesnt mean it will work on your new barrel. Every gun is different even if its the exact gun! You may need to change things around or even go with a different bullet. I would try the loose first and even go down in grains before I'd switch from the shock wave though, that is an awesome bullet and performs perfect I've killed Elk out to 200 yards with it.

[M_ray]

lol sorry smokepole I was typing and didnt see we saying the same thing! 

[grundy53]

I've been happy with Blackhorn209. I'm using 100 grains very minimal fouling.  Cleaning is a breeze. Just be careful with 209 primers the flash channel fouls faster.

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[Smokeploe]

M_Ray

no problem we are just trying to help out someone who asked for help. Every rifle is different just like everything else the is made by man, just the way it is.  When I worked at the gun store had two rifles the were consecutive serial numbers.  One shot great, tight groups everything right, the sister gun best group was 2", that was the smallest we could get even with spec. out reloads.

Smokeploe

[curtdiesel]

Currently I have only been using (2) 50grain Triple 7 pelelts.  I have not been impressed.  I plan to switch to BH209.  I have not tried it yet.  I hear you that 120 volumetric units is much more than I should start with.  Thank you for the advice.  I will start around 95 and test going up and down a little to see what shoots best. 

What equipment should I look for to make measuring, loading and shooting powder easier.  What drew me to the pellets was that they were easy.

Curt

[BeerBugler]

Powder flask
Powder measurer
Speed loaders (optional)
And yes, a bullet starter is nice,, I like the 3-way short/long/with ramrod hole
Also the proper bullet alignment adapter for your bullet

I know with the cva accura they recommend a different breech plug to go from pellets to loose powder,  not sure about your particular ML.

[slowhand]

777 loose powder and get rid of the pellets. I tried them and went back to what works. 

[curtdiesel]

Thanks BeerBugler, what powder measurer do you like.  It looks like they are all made in China .  What speed loaders would work with a T/C 300Grain ShockWave bullet?  If they held a 209 primer too that would be great.  Some of the CVA ones look like they will not work.  I read some reviews that the bullet will not fit.  I think my breech plug that came with the Knight Ultralite is correct for loose powder.  I could go with Triple 7 powder but want to try BH209 first.

Curt

[slowhand]

I have a clear T/C plastic powder measure that I love. I'm sure they still sell it

[M_ray]

I have a clear T/C plastic powder measure that I love. I'm sure they still sell it

 

[Lyons]

Ive got a CVA Optima with 209 primers. I use 110 gr. of triple 7 pellets. I can get 8 or 9 shots before it gets to hard. Im also getting 3" groups at 100 yards with open sights.

[curtdiesel]

Lyons do you use two 30 grain pellets and one 50 grain pellet or do you mean 110 gr of Triple 7 powder?

[Lyons]

Yes, 2 30's and a 50. I use Barnes spit-fire TMZ 250 gr. bullets. I shot my buck last night with that very set up.

[h2ofowlr]

To much powder.  Double the bore size.  50 cal do 100 grains.  Or 110 grains max.  Lucky you don’t blow it up or cease the breach threads.

[Lyons]

To much powder.  Double the bore size.  50 cal do 100 grains.  Or 110 grains max.  Lucky you don’t blow it up or cease the breach threads.

Me? Or the OP?

[curtdiesel]

Yeah, I'm confused.  I have been using only two 50 grain pellets of Triple 7.  I don't understand why everyone keeps saying too much powder.  I mentioned 120 grains volumetric of BH209 because that was on the load sheet from their website I read.  I see it is max and am glad for the advice to start lower around 90-100 grains.  I am hoping to get some more advice on the other questions in the original post.

[teanawayslayer]

As many have said. To much powder. I shoot 110 grain 3f 777. I can shoot a whole pack of bullets before they start getting tuff to get down the barrel.

[jackelope]

Yeah, I'm confused.  I have been using only two 50 grain pellets of Triple 7.  I don't understand why everyone keeps saying too much powder.  I mentioned 120 grains volumetric of BH209 because that was on the load sheet from their website I read.  I see it is max and am glad for the advice to start lower around 90-100 grains.  I am hoping to get some more advice on the other questions in the original post.

In my limited experience, I’ve been told/taught that loose powder burns a lot more efficiently than the pellets. The pellets are too dense and harder to get them to burn. I’d just go with loose powder. It’s a tiny inconvenience in terms of ease and the results are seemingly always better.

[jackelope]

As many have said. To much powder. I shoot 110 grain 3f 777. I can shoot a whole pack of bullets before they start getting tuff to get down the barrel.

Are you shooting 209’s?

[teanawayslayer]

As many have said. To much powder. I shoot 110 grain 3f 777. I can shoot a whole pack of bullets before they start getting tuff to get down the barrel.

Are you shooting 209’s?

nope. I haven’t switched and don’t plan to. What I use works great!

[M_ray]

To much powder.  Double the bore size.  50 cal do 100 grains.  Or 110 grains max.  Lucky you don’t blow it up or cease the breach threads.

 :You do realize that some Muzzy’s these days are rated to 150 grns??? I only shoot 100 grns cause that’s where my gun groups best but it’s max load is rated at 150 and I’ve shot that before with no problems.   

[ctwiggs1]

I switched to loose powder and all my problems went away.  I’m shooting 110gr FFF and doing quite well.

Pellets suck.  Just one more thing to worry about going wrong when there are already enough variables to consider.

[beav1980]

3 pellets is alot! Try 2 pellets u will see more accuracy and it will burn most the powder. 

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[LDennis24]

It's not too much powder, it's too much pellet. Pellets suck, they are just cleaner to handle and easier to drop in. Other than that, they are more prone to absorb moisture due to having an open pocket in between your nipple and your bullet and can lead to misfires because of it. I had misfires all the time with pellets and almost never with loose FFF. Throw that stuff out!

[Taco280AI]

I don't have much experience with MLs yet, but my Ultralight with 2 pellets at 50 yards put the first two shots .4" apart. Then I backed it up and started to adjust the sight. Haven't shot for accuracy since, but those first two... damn.