Good article in the Chronicle about elk hoof rot study.

[HntnFsh]

I tried to copy and paste the article but was only able to post a link. Actually seems like a good article with a perspective or insight into what a lot of us have suspected. Sure hope they find the answers our elk so badly need!

http://www.chronline.com/news/exploring-a-potential-root-cause-of-elk-hoof-disease/article_1808c784-0a61-11ea-8677-336734d925d6.html

[High Climber]

Thanks for the link, actually gives me a little hope that we will eventually get some answers from Dr Wild and the WSU team...and reinforces that WDFW is a joke

[huntnfmly]

Thank you for the link that was a good read and sounds like we may finally get some answers

[pianoman9701]

I may have been the first person to "out" Dr. Anne Fairbrother as a professional witness for the pesticide industry in several chemical liability lawsuits. She was appointed to the Hoof Disease Advisory Group. A lot of us, including Jon Gosch and Bruce Barnes, were perplexed at why she had been appointed, since the department was saying at the time that forest chemical spraying wasn't connected. Dr. Boone Mora, an expert in leptospirosis for decades in the CDC, was equally confused at why the WDFW scientists were so focused on treponemes as the only answer, and unrelated to anything else.

Hopefully, timber and chemical company money won't be connected to WSU's research, is it is with so many politicians in hoof disease-affected areas of the state. There's a lot of big corporation money floating around out there and a lot of people happy to accept it.

[BDildine]

Hope something comes out of this, even if not 100% proven, but highly probable would be nice. Maybe change some forestry practices for the better (aka less chemicals going into the ground/streams)

[2MANY]

It's very obvious.
Money talks and elk can't walk!!!!!!!!!!

[Griiz]

While this concerns hoof rot, I bet we would see more grouse with less spraying too.

[pianoman9701]

That's been part of the discussion. I agree, as do many others.

[fireweed]

Wow--what a brave article for a small newspaper.

I was at a focus group on elk hoof disease with a Weyerhaeuser  person there too.  When we were asked, "should anything be taken off the table?" as far as solutions to hoof rot, the Weyco employee dutifully said that changes to their forest activities (ie spraying) should be out of bounds.  Of course, I pushed back,  but the employee was suggesting that it shouldn't even be considered or looked at.  Off the table from the start!  ...Don't look behind this curtain.  There is nothing to see here...

[2MANY]

So obvious.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

I was part of one of their studies also.
We were all assigned GPS locations and supposed to go to location and look for elk, counting numbers of infected, etc..
The day before we went they locked up all the gates into area, could not even reach our GPS "starting point"
Was a complete waste of time.
Best thing about new study is it's NOT run by WDFW.

[pianoman9701]

I was part of one of their studies also.
We were all assigned GPS locations and supposed to go to location and look for elk, counting numbers of infected, etc..
The day before we went they locked up all the gates into area, could not even reach our GPS "starting point"
Was a complete waste of time.
Best thing about new study is it's NOT run by WDFW.

I did this, too and thought it was a waste of a day.

[follow maggie]

While this concerns hoof rot, I bet we would see more grouse with less spraying too.

I bet you're right. I think this will show that WDFW basically just whores themselves out to whoever has a big check book- not that it matters in this state.

[fowl smacker]

Good read.  It's about time somebody actually listens to us dumb hunters.

[JimmyHoffa]

While this concerns hoof rot, I bet we would see more grouse with less spraying too.

I saw an article about a study the other day about herbicides and fish.  The herbicides looked at killed algae, which made up the low end of the aquatic food chain.  The conclusion was those herbicides were leading to fewer fish and smaller fish.

[Mudman]

Y'all shouldn't forget we are infected too!!  We eat fish and produce etc.  Our streams are polluted as well as some of our wells.  Yards full of roundup.  Sprays in the ditches of county roads.  Oceans...  Even organic grown produce sometimes show chemicals from soil saturation.   

[bornhunter]

While this concerns hoof rot, I bet we would see more grouse with less spraying too.

I used to live next to a large parcel of weyco ground. After watching spraying and fertilizing from the air, it wasnt long and you could walk up to grouse and pick them up. The breast meat of the birds was black. Didnt take long and grouse ceased to exist in the area.

[fireweed]

What is amazing is that the DNR is spray happy too--not just private industry.  Up on the Toutle block they even spray high elevation huckleberries.

[Mudman]

It is no coincidence that deer got mangy, elk footy and grouse vanished at around the same times and areas...What about the honeybee mystery?  Where all all the frogs and salamanders I remember from youth?  How are the fish doing?  Alzheimer/dementia/autism?  Who knows?  It all seems to have elevated after 1980's?  Gotta wonder...

[BDildine]

It is no coincidence that deer got mangy, elk footy and grouse vanished at around the same times and areas...What about the honeybee mystery?  Where all all the frogs and salamanders I remember from youth?  How are the fish doing?  Alzheimer/dementia/autism?  Who knows?  It all seems to have elevated after 1980's?  Gotta wonder...

I have no doubt that they are somehow either directly or indirectly connected, Theres no way you can introduce chemicals in masse to the environment on large scale and not have rippling effects, and after years/generations of spraying your now seeing the effects of it.
The thing is unless you can prove beyond reasonable doubt, that much change will happen. They wont change willingly, and they have millions to spend on lawyers to tie it up in court for years. You'll about have to legislate it out with massive public backing/pressure IMO.

[bbarnes]

Members and hunters in general need to show up,make phone calls and have your voice heard,LOUD AND CLEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!To date not one elk has been saved ,and we've written countless articles,thesis papers on the issue not to mention millions of dollars.We need ACTION from WDFW on this issue or we all need to quit buying tags.No hunter is interested in just hiking in the woods all day to see nothing.Get involved and make a differncce.It is crazy to me how every hunting show has millions of sponsors but we can't get any sporting goods company's or hunting organizations to help out WHAT A JOKE!!!!!!

[Tinmaniac]

Packing up camp now just outside of Pe Ell.4.5 days hunting,25 elk spotted.Every single one was limping bad.It won't be long before there are no elk left on the West side.

[High Climber]

Packing up camp now just outside of Pe Ell.4.5 days hunting,25 elk spotted.Every single one was limping bad.It won't be long before there are no elk left on the West side.

Sad. Weyco land or state?

[JBar]

I'm suprised with Inslee being such a "leader" in saving the environment that he hasn't signed an emergency order banning the use of pesticides on timberlands!

[pianoman9701]

Packing up camp now just outside of Pe Ell.4.5 days hunting,25 elk spotted.Every single one was limping bad.It won't be long before there are no elk left on the West side.

Sad. Weyco land or state?

I'm suprised with Inslee being such a "leader" in saving the environment that he hasn't signed an emergency order banning the use of pesticides on timberlands!

The state sprays that crap, too, on DNR land. Check Inslee's political donors and see where Syngenta, Monsanto, and Weyerhauser rank on the list. That will give you an idea of how principled our governor is regarding the environment. The environment is only important to the left as a vehicle to socialism. Getting re-elected is more important than elk.

[Bob33]

I don't anticipate change happening soon. First, the assumption that spraying contributes to hoof rot must be true. Secondly, the study must confirm it. If it does, a change in spraying practices must be legislated. If that all occurs it may take several generations of elk for the causes and genetic changes to take effect.

[Tinmaniac]

After seeing the condition these elk were in my son spent each evening reading about hoof rot.Within an hour he confirmed what I already suspected.Herbicides may have an effect but are not the cause of hoof rot.I am not going into detail and would suggest everyone do their own research before blaming it all on spraying.The fact is that hoof rot is a death sentence for any elk that gets it.It is not just a bad case of toe jam,these elk are dying of infection and it is plain to see.Hoof rot knows no borders,without a vaccine it will continue to spread.It's in a large part of the landscape now and as more elk get it the further it spreads.

[Mudman]

Um, do some more reading.  Trep bacteria is a normal occurring thing.  So why is immune response not working?  Vaccines are for viral not bacterium.  Elk are immune suppressed.  Why?  Time and research will tell the truth if people listen and the big $ doesn't shut it down.  Fact is the truth has been out there for a decade but people are not listening because the science is attacked as flakey/junk discredited by who?  Yup Monsanto etc.

[jstone]

Sample the water. The water runs off into the creeks into the rivers into the ocean. Can this also be killing the fish!? Getting into our water system?

[Tinmaniac]

Um, do some more reading.  Trep bacteria is a normal occurring thing.  So why is immune response not working?  Vaccines are for viral not bacterium.  Elk are immune suppressed.  Why?  Time and research will tell the truth if people listen and the big $ doesn't shut it down.  Fact is the truth has been out there for a decade but people are not listening because the science is attacked as flakey/junk discredited by who?  Yup Monsanto etc.

What makes the science saying it's the Trep bacteria credible and not junk science?So your saying that they should be able to take a healthy elk and soil from a known non- contaminated area and spray the elk and soil with herbicide and the elk will get will get hoof rot.Interesting.

[Mudman]

They have and it is in water and ocean and many wells.

[jstone]

Wouldn’t that be a major lawsuit? They had to stop using chemicals that killed the birds. What is the difference?
Polluting the wells and water is a big deal.!!

[Mudman]

No I am saying trep bacteria is in many healthy soils.  Probably outside our houses.  No big deal.  I am saying it has been shown to be present in most hoof rot cases.  I am saying prolonged exposure and ingestion of hazardous chemicals cause long term health issues presented in many forms to many animals and is very hard to diagnose/isolate.  Much like people and our issues with unsafe chemicals for years/decades not knowing it was harmful.  Like roundup for example.  BPA's, it is an endless list it seems.  Did ya know many of these sprays can cross the blood/brain barrier?  Mercury does this as well.  Which is why it was used in vaccines for years and was proclaimed to be "safe"!  Experiments with lab animals have been done proving dangers of many sprays dependant on dosages.  Did ya know our lovely Gov. allows these companies to conduct their own study to verify safety, but they stupidvise of course.  Did ya know they contribute HUGE donations to campaign lobby?  It is corrupt and about making a dollar more than safety.  Did ya know most of civilized countries have banned many of these?  Just saying as something to consider in our thoughts.

[pianoman9701]

After seeing the condition these elk were in my son spent each evening reading about hoof rot.Within an hour he confirmed what I already suspected.Herbicides may have an effect but are not the cause of hoof rot.I am not going into detail and would suggest everyone do their own research before blaming it all on spraying.The fact is that hoof rot is a death sentence for any elk that gets it.It is not just a bad case of toe jam,these elk are dying of infection and it is plain to see.Hoof rot knows no borders,without a vaccine it will continue to spread.It's in a large part of the landscape now and as more elk get it the further it spreads.

Herbicides are not causal. It is suggested by many, including esteemed biologists, that ingesting sprayed plants reduces immunity resistance to the effect of the bacteria on ungulates. There are no trepanemes or leptospira in pesticides. These are and have been, however, very common bacteria in damp climates. Why they hadn't caused hoof disease prior to the late 80s is the question. What has changed in the last 30 years?

[Mudman]

Well said Piano, I see you have done some serious digging into this!  I wish more would do the same.  Arguing and stressing points usually just ends in futility.  I actually learned of this potential problem while digging into autism 8-9 years ago.  There is some overlapping concerns.

[pianoman9701]

There's a reason that both glyphosate and atrazine were both banned in Europe over a decade ago. The reason was not because they hated farmers and loggers.

[Mudman]

   Organic people, organic.  Best thing we can try to do.  Yes and there is about 10 other chemicals being used that we not talking about, YET?