opinions wanted on new rifle caliber

[Yondering]

I agree with Karl in that more horsepower is never a bad thing.

And that's where we disagree, because more horsepower certainly can be a bad thing when it's not worth the trade off. It comes at the cost of recoil, barrel heat, etc and in the case of larger cartridges, for most people it translates to less practice and proficiency with the rifle. I know the common thought among a lot of hunters here is that a big magnum is better than a smaller cartridge for hunting, but when you get the opinion of people who actually shoot a lot, that suggestion usually changes to using smaller cartridges. With a few exceptions of course.

You and I may not feel like there's much difference between shooting a 223 and a 22-250, but for an 8 year old kid? It may be the difference between shooting 5-10 rounds for practice and 50. That's been my experience in teaching my own kids to shoot. And if a guy loads his own ammo, the smaller powder charges and plentiful free brass for the 223 should not be overlooked.

[huntnphool]

 I’ve owned several, I’d purchase the Ruger again, the Howa...

[b23]

I agree with Karl in that more horsepower is never a bad thing.

And that's where we disagree, because more horsepower certainly can be a bad thing when it's not worth the trade off. It comes at the cost of recoil, barrel heat, etc and in the case of larger cartridges, for most people it translates to less practice and proficiency with the rifle. I know the common thought among a lot of hunters here is that a big magnum is better than a smaller cartridge for hunting, but when you get the opinion of people who actually shoot a lot, that suggestion usually changes to using smaller cartridges. With a few exceptions of course.

You and I may not feel like there's much difference between shooting a 223 and a 22-250, but for an 8 year old kid? It may be the difference between shooting 5-10 rounds for practice and 50. That's been my experience in teaching my own kids to shoot. And if a guy loads his own ammo, the smaller powder charges and plentiful free brass for the 223 should not be overlooked.

This is kinda why I mentioned the little 17 Hornet.  It's like a big overgrown rimfire on steroids but has close to zero recoil, isn't all that loud, and is cheap to shoot, not to mention they generally shoot pretty well right out of the box with factory ammo.  They're actually a really fun little gun to shoot for any age.

[blackveltbowhunter]

Have some experience with both. I don't own either, although in the market for a nice 223. Here is my  Recoil I notice little difference between the two, however my oldest daughter (11) did. Neither were bothersome for her, but she certainly could feel a difference.

    The 223 is a centerfire "plinker"  in my mind. Its the 06 of the varmint/small deer world. Tons of reload options, tons of OTC options, lots of gun options, easy to shoot. Does what it needs to without flash and flare and if a guy has one he really has no need for anything else. BUT if serious about crossing into deer territory there are better options. If serious about shooting longer distance at dogs there are better options, if combining both their are certainly better options.

   

[headshot5]

If you want a fun gun, Ruger is now making the Ruger American Ranch in 6.5 grendel with a 16" barrel.  This would be an awesome predator/deer gun.  Only problem is it is not stainless. 

As far as the 223, Get a 1:9 or 1:8 twist.   Shoot 60 grain partitions or 64 nosler protected points for deer.  No need to go up to a 22-250.

I have a tikka stainless 223, and it is a great gun, it's good practice for hunting season since i also use a tikka 270 or -06 for deer and elk.  Another good option would be a savage 16 LWH in 223.  It's a lightweight gun with i believe a 20" barrel.     

[Karl Blanchard]

If deer is not gonna be an option then .223 is the more obvious choice but once again, recoil is so minimal on both I'd just get what you want.

I've mentored 10 youth hunters over the last 16 years. One of the issues with recoil sensitivity that I figured out was lack of confidence and lack of shooting form (recoil management). It starts with a rimfire. A bolt action .22lr and coaching is gonna teach the basic fundamentals and skill that transition into shooting centerfire. After my first youth hunter, I started using the .22 and every kid since puts 500+ rounds through a rimfire before we move to a centerfire.  If a kid has some size, this goes more quickly but like I posted earlier, my daughter is tiny. She started hunting at 7. She was under 4ft and weighed 40lb. We shot a thousands rounds of 22 before we ever touched the .243.  She is 10 now and only 58lb but she has the confidence to handle the weapon in her hands and she doesnt even think about recoil. We still start every spring out with the .22 though. Most grown men could benefit from some .22 training as well   

[7mmfan]

Karl, you are right about training with the 22. Thats exactly what I did with my nephew before he started hunting. We went out several times just shooting the 22 and practicing form and trigger control. His first with a center fire was my 7mm-08 and he bullseyed the target. It rattled him though and it took a while to get him back on track. I'm viewing this rifle as the medium between the two. Something that will allow him to practice at distances similar to hunting scenarios and work in hunting scenarios so he can gain confidence before we step up to the hunting caliber. Just adding a step to what you did. Plus, we can all benefit from more time behind the trigger, and I don't want to shoot out my 7 mag or 7mm-08 doing that. This will be the practice gun in the off season.

Probably going 223 after all this discussion. Everyone's input was valuable and appreciated.

[Karl Blanchard]

Oh there was definitely steps between .22 and hunting calibers.  You are right to work up to the boomers. I am a big bait and switch guy too.  Reduced recoil loads all summer and then right before season I'd rezero with full power hunting loads. When they shoot at an animal they never even notice. Same with shotgun. Get some reps in with target loads and then come turkey time, swap out the target loads with the good stuff. To a kid, they are all just yellow shotgun shells

As you know, keep range sessions short and fun. Reactionary targets like steel plates, swingers, milk jugs, etc are always a hit.

[Magnum_Willys]

Reactionary targets like steel plates, swingers, milk jugs, etc are always a hit.

    good shooting!

[7mmfan]

As you know, keep range sessions short and fun. Reactionary targets like steel plates, swingers, milk jugs, etc are always a hit.

Milk jugs are still my all time favorite target. That and little green propane tanks... 

[Yondering]

This is kinda why I mentioned the little 17 Hornet.  It's like a big overgrown rimfire on steroids but has close to zero recoil, isn't all that loud, and is cheap to shoot, not to mention they generally shoot pretty well right out of the box with factory ammo.  They're actually a really fun little gun to shoot for any age.

I haven't tried a 17 Hornet but sure enjoy the 22 Hornet. I have to agree something like that is worth considering too, although it's still hard to beat component and ammo availability for the 223.

I think the right solution is to buy one of each. 

[The Big Game Hunter]

I'm close to putting my money down and buying a new rifle. I'm looking at a compact, lightweight rifle I can carry in the off season for coyotes, grouse, whatever. It will also be used to teach my son to shoot in a couple years. I've narrowed it down to .223 or 22-250. I've always wanted a 22-250, but I'm not convinced that it is so much better than .223 that I should just go for it. The things I'm considering:

Reloading
Off the shelf ammo price/availability/selection
Recoil (young shooter)
Accuracy to 300 yards
Ability to kill deer (legal in Idaho)

I've been leaning towards the .223 because of the overwhelming availability of ammo, but I do reload so I'm not to terribly worried about it. If someone can convince me that the 22-250 is significantly better, I may go that way instead.

Based on your criteria, I'd say the .223 is probably the better choice.
However, it really comes down to which criteria you prioritize more over others. The 223 certainly wins as far as off the shelf ammo/price/availability/selection goes (at this instant anyway). Both are good for reloading and both have pretty mild recoil (though the 223 will have a little less).
Of the two, the 22-250 is certainly better for hunting deer. However, just to throw it out there, you should probably look into the 224 Valkyrie if you really want a .22 caliber rifle for hunting deer.
https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/224-valkyrie/