Talk to me about dies

[7mmfan]

I have the standard RCBS green box reloading dies for my 7 mag and 7mm-08. Is there really a significant difference between them and some of the much higher priced versions? What would I gain by spending more money?

[h20hunter]

Frankly....not much unless you go special project. For 90% off all my guns I use dillon dies, hornady,  rcbs, etc. My one exception is my Rbros 7mag. I went with the competition type with the neck bushing insert to be as laser dialed in as I could to duplicate the builders load specs. Granted, my shooting abilities likely don't come close to eaking out that minute difference but that is what I'm trying yo do.....get every mm of accuracy i can out of that build.

[BULLBLASTER]

I am a fan of the Redding premium dies. The carbide expander ball is slick going through the necks and the micrometer seating plug is easy to use. I recently got a set of whidden dies and really like them as well.
All of mine are full length non bushing dies, I’ve never tried bushing dies.

To me the set up and adjustment of the Redding and whidden dies is so much easier than the rcbs.

[7mmfan]

I am a fan of the Redding premium dies. The carbide expander ball is slick going through the necks and the micrometer seating plug is easy to use. I recently got a set of whidden dies and really like them as well.
All of mine are full length non bushing dies, I’ve never tried bushing dies.

To me the set up and adjustment of the Redding and whidden dies is so much easier than the rcbs.

The little brass set screw on my RCBS die stripped out last time I was reloading, and wreaked havoc with me trying to keep consistent seating depth. Even when there was no apparent movement in the die, it would still wander on me. Got me thinking about upgrading into something a little better quality.

[Karl Blanchard]

I am a fan of the Redding premium dies. The carbide expander ball is slick going through the necks and the micrometer seating plug is easy to use. I recently got a set of whidden dies and really like them as well.
All of mine are full length non bushing dies, I’ve never tried bushing dies.

To me the set up and adjustment of the Redding and whidden dies is so much easier than the rcbs.

The little brass set screw on my RCBS die stripped out last time I was reloading, and wreaked havoc with me trying to keep consistent seating depth. Even when there was no apparent movement in the die, it would still wander on me. Got me thinking about upgrading into something a little better quality.

two things. First, toss all those garbage rcbs locking rings and order a 6 pack of the hornady ones off Amazon. Second, my favorite dies are the redding master hunter series dies.

[7mmfan]

I am a fan of the Redding premium dies. The carbide expander ball is slick going through the necks and the micrometer seating plug is easy to use. I recently got a set of whidden dies and really like them as well.
All of mine are full length non bushing dies, I’ve never tried bushing dies.

To me the set up and adjustment of the Redding and whidden dies is so much easier than the rcbs.

The little brass set screw on my RCBS die stripped out last time I was reloading, and wreaked havoc with me trying to keep consistent seating depth. Even when there was no apparent movement in the die, it would still wander on me. Got me thinking about upgrading into something a little better quality.

two things. First, toss all those garbage rcbs locking rings and order a 6 pack of the hornady ones off Amazon. Second, my favorite dies are the redding master hunter series dies.

Good call. Didn't know that was an option. Tell me why you like the Redding dies so much? What features do they offer that make them the best in your mind?

[Bill W]

The chamber dimensions of your rifle is the most important part.  Most dies are good enough as long as no one has tied them on for use as a sturgeon sinker.

[Stein]

I think it depends on what you are doing with the rifle.  I have Lee dies which I believe are the cheapest out there.  I can get down to about .5 MOA and maybe a little under that if my daughter is shooting as my eyes aren't capable of much better 0.75 MOA on most days.

If you are pulling out all the stops for bench rest accuracy, I'm sure there are good reasons to go there, but for average hunting situations I am better off spending that money on bullets and powder and shooting more.

[b23]

I pretty much only use Redding dies, but I have a few Forster dies too.  IMO, they size a lot smoother than less expensive dies and I really like Redding Comp dies.

[BULLBLASTER]

The big benefits for me are ease of set up and adjustment as well as overall fit and finish. Like B23 said they also just seem to size smoother.  The master hunter dies that Karl mentioned also have the fancy spring loaded seater die (I don’t know what it’s called) but that supports the entire case while the bullet is seated. Only my whidden set has that.
My only gripe with my Redding dies is on my 300 win seater the seating set up would not allow for long enough seating so i took a locking nut off another die to space the seating plug over the die. Though that would be mitigated with a fancy spring loaded seater.

[Karl Blanchard]

Others summed it up nicely. Just better all around. Consistency, setup, and function. Accuracy comes from consistency. Every aspect and phase of loading and shooting make a difference. While one individual thing can be a minor thing, you add all of them up and it can be significant increase or decrease in accuracy.

[7mmfan]

Alright, good talk guys. Thanks for the input

[CaNINE]

I get some pretty remarkable accuracy results out of RCBS standard dies.  However, the first thing I do is pull the expander ball out and throw it in the trash.  I use a separate mandrel step to expand necks.

[Crunchy]

I am a standard RCBS die guy myself.  I use the Hornady lock rings, which are a must.  Dial it in and lock them down.  I do a lot of measuring to ensure consistency.

[7mmfan]

It sounds like the Hornady locking rings are where I need to start, and then decide if the die itself is still functioning appropriately. My guess is it's fine for my intended use.

[buckfvr]

If you are only considering changing dies and then continue the same reloading process, I doubt you will see a difference.  If you are full blown optimizing for accuracy by completely uniforming your brass, then sure, upgrade dies.

[Karl Blanchard]

https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-044606-Sure-Loc-Lock-Ring/dp/B001OPTMU4/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=hornady+locking+rings&qid=1580409598&sr=8-1



Accuracy is definitely attainable with less expensive dies. Anymore I am a "get in front of the issue" kind of guy and would rather spend the few extra bucks in the beginning vs possibly having to upgrade to fix an issue. With that said, I finally got on the 6.5 creedmoor train and went "cheap" on the dies with some standard rcbs dies. Rifle is a ruger american and was intended to be just a plinker/kid rig while I was replacing a shot out barrel but the thing shoots amazing. Not sure I could achieve better accuracy with fancy dies. First pic is a 5 shot group during seating depth testing. Next pic is a 9 shot group doing some confirmation of the load.

[7mmfan]

All my brass is consistent, all full length resized and trimmed to spec. It's more about being able to seat bullets to the same depth every time without have to constantly measure and make small adjustments to the die, which has been my life for a while. That's what started the thread. I'm hoping that simply changing the locking ring will help that. If it doesn't then I'll replace the dies.

Supergrade bench rest accuracy isn't necessarily the goal, but the more accurate the better. Both loads I use now are sub MOA, but I feel I can do a little better with some adjustments.

[buckfvr]

There is a lot of unspoken here, so are you measuring base to ogive or coal ?  Are you sorting the bullets as they have an industry standard + or - deviation.   If all you do is full length size and trim to length Id not worry about 4k deviation (+ or - 2k) as you are unlikely to see that in 100 yard groups.

[yakimarcher]

I've shot a sub .8" at 100 yards group off sandbags and with my .270 (which is a sporterized mil surp mauser) with regular RCBS dies, a lee press and a $25 digital scale. I've reloaded less than 500 rounds, my only "Education" on reloading is from You tube and an outdated hornady manual.  No doubt the expensive dies are beneficial, if you know how to dial them in and are bench rest shooting or something. For a dude trying wanting a 500 yard effective range on deer I doubt they're worth upgrading.

[7mmfan]

I think some of you guys are light years ahead of me. I'm just trying to make ammo that is as consistent as possible so I have 100% confidence in it. My self imposed range is about 450 yards on game, depending on the situation. I've had pretty good success with a very rudimentary reloading setup, so I'm incrementally trying to upgrade key rats to make it more precise and efficient.

I'm specifically loading for my 7mm-08 right now, and I've determined lands depth, so I want to start exactly .05 of lands like Barnes suggests. The prospect of that with my current die situation was pretty daunting, that is why I was asking about upgraded dies and if they were worth it. Some good suggestions were made to help diagnose if its the die itself that is the problem causer, or the shotty locking ring. 

[buckfvr]

You may want to check your seating stem and see if the bullet cup on the stem is making contact on the tip of the bullet or the sides of the tip.......sides would be correct.  Premium dies either come with vld type stems or list them as an option, dont know about your dies and how they fit the bullets you are using, but even if you keep the rcbs full length sizer, it wouldnt be a bad idea to have a micrometer seater die, I use Forster, and since I have them, Im using them even though Ive switched to Redding for sizing dies.

[Stein]

This isn't related to dies, but you mentioned you are looking to increase consistency.  There are a bunch of much more knowledgeable guys here, but here are a few steps I went through that are pretty straight forward and affordable.  I used a MagnetoSpeed to gather good data.

1.  Try different cases, I found one brand was much more consistent.
2.  Try different primers, again one was the clear winner, a few were very good and the rest were not so good.
3.  Try different loads, pretty much standard fare here, some loads are more accurate than others.

I left the length the same, in my case it is the longest that will fit in the mag but shorter than I would have liked.  I also kept the powder the same for simplicity and cost/time.

Using the above, I was fairly quickly able to get to a new hunting load and get a remarkably consistent shot, especially considering I was using a mediocre bullet ballistically (TSX), a $25 electronic scale and Lee reloading equipment.

That said, it is marginally better than my old hunting load that I arrived at by shooting 3 shot groups at maybe 10 different powder charges and  calling it good.  For my 400ish yard max, it really isn't better but I enjoy data, shooting and the intellectual pursuit.

[7mmfan]

This isn't related to dies, but you mentioned you are looking to increase consistency.  There are a bunch of much more knowledgeable guys here, but here are a few steps I went through that are pretty straight forward and affordable.  I used a MagnetoSpeed to gather good data.

1.  Try different cases, I found one brand was much more consistent.
2.  Try different primers, again one was the clear winner, a few were very good and the rest were not so good.
3.  Try different loads, pretty much standard fare here, some loads are more accurate than others.

I left the length the same, in my case it is the longest that will fit in the mag but shorter than I would have liked.  I also kept the powder the same for simplicity and cost/time.

Using the above, I was fairly quickly able to get to a new hunting load and get a remarkably consistent shot, especially considering I was using a mediocre bullet ballistically (TSX), a $25 electronic scale and Lee reloading equipment.

That said, it is marginally better than my old hunting load that I arrived at by shooting 3 shot groups at maybe 10 different powder charges and  calling it good.  For my 400ish yard max, it really isn't better but I enjoy data, shooting and the intellectual pursuit.

I'm all over it Stein, thanks for the input.

[yorketransport]

I get some pretty remarkable accuracy results out of RCBS standard dies.  However, the first thing I do is pull the expander ball out and throw it in the trash.  I use a separate mandrel step to expand necks.

That's some solid advice right there. The K&M Expander is money well spent.

As far as getting more consistent results when bullet seating, try seating the bullet a little bit, then rotating the case 90° and seating it a little more, then repeat until the bullet's seated completely. Then rotate the case one more time and lower the press handle one more time, making firm contact at the bottom of the press stroke.

[7mmfan]

I get some pretty remarkable accuracy results out of RCBS standard dies.  However, the first thing I do is pull the expander ball out and throw it in the trash.  I use a separate mandrel step to expand necks.

That's some solid advice right there. The K&M Expander is money well spent.

As far as getting more consistent results when bullet seating, try seating the bullet a little bit, then rotating the case 90° and seating it a little more, then repeat until the bullet's seated completely. Then rotate the case one more time and lower the press handle one more time, making firm contact at the bottom of the press stroke.

Its funny you mention this. A member that doesn't hang around here much anymore, BOWHUNTER45 or something suggested this a few years back when I had a reloading question. Been doing it ever since. Dont know if it makes a big difference but it's nice to hear others suggest it as well.

[h20hunter]

I bought him a beer many moons ago. I also rotate my cases as i seat it down.