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Author Topic: idaho non resident tag decrease, fee increase  (Read 53677 times)

Offline huntnnw

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Re: idaho non resident tag decrease, fee increase
« Reply #225 on: March 03, 2020, 06:29:09 AM »
hes not a employee, contracted by IDFG. this guy was not some pro wolf guy if you met him hes a die hard trapper.

Offline idaho guy

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Re: idaho non resident tag decrease, fee increase
« Reply #226 on: March 03, 2020, 07:18:00 AM »
hes not a employee, contracted by IDFG. this guy was not some pro wolf guy if you met him hes a die hard trapper.


That sounds exactly like the guy who taught the class when I took it when they first opened trapping up. Even then he cited same exact weight stats etc. it is no different than bears and lions everybody shoots and sees 300 lbd bears and 180 pound cats. I have been hound hunting for decades and I have treed a few cats in that range and most mature toms weigh about 125-140. I don’t even need to talk about 300 lb bears other than average spring beat in Idaho is probably 150 max.he is a cool guy but saying they didn’t transplant a much larger super wolf down here is total bull crap. The reason the original wolf didn’t take off like these freaks is they were smaller etc. they were monitoring wolves in Montana and parts of Idaho when they did release the super wolves. They said they were basically extinct because they didn’t feel they would be self sustaining through natural breeding. They threw the super freaks on top of them those original smaller and native wolves are all dead because the freaks from the north killed them. I know he is probably being fairly honest with the actual weight of wolves but the wolf they planted was not our native wolf. Funny he is citing exact statistics on wolves years later.

Offline Machias

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Re: idaho non resident tag decrease, fee increase
« Reply #227 on: March 03, 2020, 08:18:43 AM »
You guys are talking about Jack Whitman, the man has trapped tigers, bears and other dangerous game all over the world and is probably one of the most knowledgeable wolf trappers out there.  Super nice guy!  He goes by Gulo on Trapperman.com and has a thread with some of the animals he has trapped around the world.   https://trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/6779380/1
Fred Moyer

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Offline buglebrush

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Re: idaho non resident tag decrease, fee increase
« Reply #228 on: March 03, 2020, 01:32:13 PM »
:chuckle:  ground swell the largest wolf hes ever known with official weight was 152 lbs.That wolf is life-sized in Bonner's ferry I believe.  Another myth he stated was these wolves DNA is no different than the wolves of hundreds of years ago that roamed the area. wolves in AK,NWT have home ranges of 500 mi and some lone wolves will travel further spreading their genetic make up all over the continent.

One interesting point he brought up was wolves had been here far prior to the re-introduction in 95. He said there had been wolves in the lolo for a fact in the 80's and probably earlier and up north in Bonners. I also know that wolves were up above northport in the late 80's as we saw 1 and heard them on a couple nights hunting.  What has baffled them is to see how the wolves spread so successfully in 95, yet the wolves that were here in places never took off and held in check. The only logical answer he had was people were taking care of them SSS rule, poison

Ya he's full of it.  We indeed had some timber Wolves in Bonners, but they were far smaller and more territorial.  The native Timber Wolves are now extinct. 

Offline Machias

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Re: idaho non resident tag decrease, fee increase
« Reply #229 on: March 03, 2020, 02:00:20 PM »
He's NOT full of it, that I can assure you.  He's forgotten more about wolves and big predators then most of us will ever have a clue about.
Fred Moyer

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Offline Bango skank

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Re: idaho non resident tag decrease, fee increase
« Reply #230 on: March 03, 2020, 02:08:52 PM »
Maybe they are bigger than the wolves here before, but that doesnt mean their dna is different.  Whitetail in florida and whitetail in alberta are significantly different in size, but theyre genetically the same species.  Same with slaskan brown bears and interior grizzlies.

Offline idaho guy

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Re: idaho non resident tag decrease, fee increase
« Reply #231 on: March 03, 2020, 05:36:20 PM »
You guys are talking about Jack Whitman, the man has trapped tigers, bears and other dangerous game all over the world and is probably one of the most knowledgeable wolf trappers out there.  Super nice guy!  He goes by Gulo on Trapperman.com and has a thread with some of the animals he has trapped around the world.   https://trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/6779380/1


I don’t know if that’s same guy, anyways the instructor I am talking about I think is a good guy and he has more trapping knowledge then I will learn in 2 lifetimes. The mystery of why our native wolf was kept in check and the introduced invasive wolf is uncontrollable is bull crap though. He knows it’s a different wolf

Offline idaho guy

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Re: idaho non resident tag decrease, fee increase
« Reply #232 on: March 03, 2020, 05:40:22 PM »
Maybe they are bigger than the wolves here before, but that doesnt mean their dna is different.  Whitetail in florida and whitetail in alberta are significantly different in size, but theyre genetically the same species.  Same with slaskan brown bears and interior grizzlies.
 

DNA could be same but just like whitetail they are different subspecies. They already had our wolves identified as a different subspecies of wolf from the planted wolves. You can look it up now the greenies are trying to ignore that

Offline Machias

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Re: idaho non resident tag decrease, fee increase
« Reply #233 on: March 03, 2020, 09:38:36 PM »
The mystery of why our native wolf was kept in check and the introduced invasive wolf is uncontrollable is bull crap though.

Agree!!
Fred Moyer

When it's Grim, be the GRIM REAPER!

Offline Bango skank

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Re: idaho non resident tag decrease, fee increase
« Reply #234 on: March 04, 2020, 12:08:43 AM »
What i find interesting about the whole wolf subspecies argument is that the wolf lovers responsible for the introduction make no distinction between the supposedly smaller native subspecies and the larger canadian wolves they replaced them with, yet when it comes to the mexican gray wolf thing all the sudden its a different species needing separate protections and classification.  Lumpers one minute, splitters the next.  Whatever suits their agenda.

Offline idaho guy

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Re: idaho non resident tag decrease, fee increase
« Reply #235 on: March 04, 2020, 06:24:19 AM »
What i find interesting about the whole wolf subspecies argument is that the wolf lovers responsible for the introduction make no distinction between the supposedly smaller native subspecies and the larger canadian wolves they replaced them with, yet when it comes to the mexican gray wolf thing all the sudden its a different species needing separate protections and classification.  Lumpers one minute, splitters the next.  Whatever suits their agenda.
   

 :yeah: Exactly the problem! Our native subspecies is the only one they want to deny. They try to come up with subspecies of almost everything as long as it fits their agenda even trying to create a subspecies of mountain lions in California so they can give it more “protection” . You already can’t hunt any lions there it’s  insane! I read something from one of their “experts “ saying well maybe there wasn’t a different subspecies of native wolf just the other day bunch of liars.

Offline huntnnw

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Re: idaho non resident tag decrease, fee increase
« Reply #236 on: March 04, 2020, 06:51:06 AM »
wolves dna is the same from the upper midwest to AK, body size of the wolves vary to region to what animals they target.

Offline Sitka_Blacktail

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Re: idaho non resident tag decrease, fee increase
« Reply #237 on: March 04, 2020, 08:24:12 AM »
wolves dna is the same from the upper midwest to AK, body size of the wolves vary to region to what animals they target.

Body size within a species us usually smaller the closer to the equator you get. In the colder north larger body mass is an advantage during the winter as animals are trying to stay warm and in southern warmer areas staying cool is more important, that's why Canadian Whitetails are generally larger bodied than Northern US whitetails which are larger bodied than whitetails is the Southern US which are in turn larger bodied than desert whitetails (Coues). Same holds true with blacktails. California blacktails are much smaller bodied than Washington blacktails.  There are exceptions to that as in the case of brown bears. The coastal brownies have easy food sources (salmon) which allows them to grow larger than interior grizzlies and in Alaska, the coastal grizzlies have a longer feeding season before they hibernate than the interior grizzlies which adds to the size difference.

It's possible that the introduced wolves will selectively breed themselves smaller if that turns out to be an advantage for them.  Time will tell.
A man who fears suffering is already suffering from what he fears. ~ Michel de Montaigne

Offline idaho guy

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Re: idaho non resident tag decrease, fee increase
« Reply #238 on: March 04, 2020, 09:39:30 AM »
wolves dna is the same from the upper midwest to AK, body size of the wolves vary to region to what animals they target.

Body size within a species us usually smaller the closer to the equator you get. In the colder north larger body mass is an advantage during the winter as animals are trying to stay warm and in southern warmer areas staying cool is more important, that's why Canadian Whitetails are generally larger bodied than Northern US whitetails which are larger bodied than whitetails is the Southern US which are in turn larger bodied than desert whitetails (Coues). Same holds true with blacktails. California blacktails are much smaller bodied than Washington blacktails.  There are exceptions to that as in the case of brown bears. The coastal brownies have easy food sources (salmon) which allows them to grow larger than interior grizzlies and in Alaska, the coastal grizzlies have a longer feeding season before they hibernate than the interior grizzlies which adds to the size difference.

It's possible that the introduced wolves will selectively breed themselves smaller if that turns out to be an advantage for them.  Time will tell.
   

Getting smaller is an advantage for their PREY. No way they are going to breed themselves smaller. Everyone that's seen a florida or texas whitetail can see it is smaller than one in Canada or our shiras moose vs a Canadian moose and then even bigger are Alaskan moose. There are 29 different subspecies of whitetail they have identified, there dna all shows they are whitetails but there is a variations within that species biggest one being SIZE. To get nerdy with it they actually at one time recognized 24 sub species of wolves on the endangered species list 20 plus years ago and then went to 2 and now back to 4. Idaho montana etc had canis lupis irremotus and or canis lupus nubilus and they planted canis lupus occidentilis-the artic grey wolf. Main thing that differentiates those species is SIZE. size matters especially when it comes down to killing lots of elk. The original statement was their dna is the same so the instructor had NO idea why our original wolves were barely surviving but wow these huge super wolves from Canada are exploding! I just don't get it. That is a bull crap statement and these new wolves have likely killed all of our native wolfs-but who cares they are all the same dna right they are all just wolves? I just dont like being lied too. They were studying 3 packs of native wolves in central Idaho in the late 80s but felt they were not self sustaining so they determined they were extinct. I bet they are extinct now thanks to our super wolves from Canada. Size matters! just ask an Idaho elk.   

Online Broomd

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Re: idaho non resident tag decrease, fee increase
« Reply #239 on: March 13, 2020, 07:28:44 PM »
Idaho is no different from other big hunting states.  The residents vote and they tell their legislators they want fewer nonresident tags.  They reduce the tags but increase the price since residents also say don't raise my prices.  Until nonresidents vote, it will always be this way.

Many of us residents welcome a tag increase.
We'll gladly pick up the slack.

 


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