Tradition

[Machias]

I agree whole heartedly with a lot of that but basically saying it's wrong to shoot a jake is horse crap in my opinion.  We don't have 4 billion turkeys in the woods like the great state of Missouri and calling in ANY gobbler on public ground in WA can be a challenge.  Any turkey killed THE RIGHT WAY is a trophy in my eyes.  I hate it when I hear someone say they killed a bird, "but it was JUST a jake".  I learned long ago to never use the word "just" in describing an animal you have harvested. 

If we all agreed with Missouri "traditions", we'd marry our sisters and have affairs with our cousins....

I think you have Missouri mistaken for West Virgina   

Shoot all the jakes you want.      If that is how you measure success, more power to you.  However jakes harvested never make it to longbeard status and please there are MORE then enough turkeys in WA to pass on jakes and still harvest a longbeard.  But you'll never progress and be an accomplished turkey hunter if you keep on shooting the dumbest bird in the woods.  Your skill level will never go up.  If it's just about putting a bird in the freezer, heck the butterballs taste way better and they are a bunch cheaper as well.

C-Money I'm not picking on you but.

"Guess at this point this year, I'd shoot a legal bird that came to my call, Jake or tom." 

At this point in the season?  It's just a week old, the best part of the season is a couple of weeks away, no rush my friend.

[fishunt247]

Good point bone, I was thinking the same thing, but for elk. Should we not shoot any elk (spike only) in eastern washington?

Ethics are a sticky topic, but interesting to discuss. My final idea on jakes is that I don't care if anyone shoots them at all, but for me I'd rather wait for a longbeard.

And we have just reached prime time in the season C-Money. I love hunting the 20's (April 20th to May 1). I kill 90% of my birds during that time frame. So keep at it, it's just now getting good.

[Intruder]

Machias... you are spot on buddy!!!!

I couldn't agree more with you.  Stalking, ambushing and Jake Shooting is not what the great sport is about.  While not illegal some of this is dangerous or can mess up other hunters.  Jakes for kids or a person's first is fine but they shouldn't be targeted.  I know mistakes have been made when the intention was to kill a long beard and a Jake was taken instead but those are rare. 

Great post!!!!

[Buglinbulls]

My remarks will probably just prove your main point, that the "tradition" of respectable turkey hunting strategies is being lost on new generations in the sport.  However, I have never understood this mentality, that the only way to respectfully harvest a gobbler is by calling one in.  I've called in plenty of bull elk, and I've stalked plenty of bull elk, and I get a similar thrill from both strategies.

I am definitely a "newcomer" to the sport of turkey hunting, and this is the first year that I have lived in a state with a turkey population that allows me to buy a tag over the counter.  But I can tell you this, whether I call in a gobbler this weekend or stalk within range to stick one with an arrow, I'll be equally excited.  I will not feel "embarrassed" or "unethical" if I manage to sneak within lethal bow range to seal the deal.  I guess I don't understand why so many avid turkey hunters harp about how smart the birds are and how difficult it is to make a stalk on a turkey, but turn around and say how "disrespectful" it is to the bird, and how "unethical" it is as a hunting strategy. 

Just my  , now go ahead and tell me how wrong I am.       

[300UltraMagShooter]

I agree 100%.

I particularly don't like any talk that divides hunters. 

There has to be a way to allow people to have their own views and traditions without wanting it to become a type of "law" or judgement.

I figure it is good to have these types of things as tradition, but not take it any further than that.

 

My remarks will probably just prove your main point, that the "tradition" of respectable turkey hunting strategies is being lost on new generations in the sport.  However, I have never understood this mentality, that the only way to respectfully harvest a gobbler is by calling one in.  I've called in plenty of bull elk, and I've stalked plenty of bull elk, and I get a similar thrill from both strategies.

I am definitely a "newcomer" to the sport of turkey hunting, and this is the first year that I have lived in a state with a turkey population that allows me to buy a tag over the counter.  But I can tell you this, whether I call in a gobbler this weekend or stalk within range to stick one with an arrow, I'll be equally excited.  I will not feel "embarrassed" or "unethical" if I manage to sneak within lethal bow range to seal the deal.  I guess I don't understand why so many avid turkey hunters harp about how smart the birds are and how difficult it is to make a stalk on a turkey, but turn around and say how "disrespectful" it is to the bird, and how "unethical" it is as a hunting strategy. 

Just my  , now go ahead and tell me how wrong I am.       

[Machias]

Stalking turkeys is extremely dangerous, less so out here then back in the mid west and the south where spring time vegitation is much thicker and greener, but it is none the less very dangerous here.  Most turkey hunting accidents occurr when folks sneak in on a set up and either shoot a decoy, hitting the concealed hunter nearby or get shot themselves sneaking in on a gobbling bird because they have no idea someone is already talking to that bird and trying to call it into range.  Sometimes tradition is born out of safety.  You don't wear red, white or blue while in the woods turkey hunting, it's not against the law but pretty stupid none the less.  Stalking a bugling bull and a gobbling turkey are very different endeavors.  You will also wound more turkeys trying to sneak in and take a running shot then if you call him into range.  These birds can be hard to put down, they shouldn't be shot at while running or flying, way too likely to wound them.

I don't understand how talking about traditional ways to harvest a majestic bird is dividing hunters.  I'm not telling them they HAVE to hunt this way, I'm trying to convey where the sport of turkey hunting has come from and the history.  My words on this site will not change how a person chooses to pursue something.  If your not interested in hunting turkeys by what millions of turkey hunters accross this nation feel are fair chase rules of engagement, then don't.  Engage in risky behavior for you and the birds.  But you will never get the satisfaction of becoming a good turkey hunter, you'll be a good turkey killer, that's all.  And if that is all your interested in then really you should save yourself some time and money and buy a butterball.

[fishunt247]

Not only is it dangerous, I just can't imagine it being as exciting (or exciting at all) as calling a bird to you: you aren't making him gobble, you aren't outsmarting his natural instinct of waiting for the hens to come to him, etc. When I'm closing the distance between me and a gobbler on the roost, its really not exciting but rather as a matter-of-fact process that will lead to excitement once he flies down. But to each his own I suppose.

[Phantom Gobbler]

If traditions are important, and I believe they are......then try bowhunting turkeys for additional challenge.  We called 4 Toms in and missed two shots with bows last week. In one of the setups, we struck a fired up bird and called the large gobbler in within minutes.  He came in full strut, spitting and drumming at 30 yards, but we could not draw the bow back without getting busted!!  Great memories and part of the fun of getting out there.

   

[fishunt247]

I think it would be quite the challenge, but also think that turkey hunting (as we know it) is traditionally a shotgun sport. I bow hunt for elk, and think it would be fun to try for turkey hunting, but many of the places I hunt I don't think it would be as feasable (blind isn't possible, to thick=deflections, etc). But I commend folks for doing it that way for sure.

[Tom Tamer]

I can agree to somw extent, as a life long Wash. resident and now a devout Turkey NUT I want to see a traditon become in this state, but on some of the ethics I question why they are deemed unethical.

 In the case of stalking, now just running through the woods spotting a bird and sneaking on it I won't do, I'll call it. But in the heat of the battle and repositioning is required??? DO you think that is fair? I do. My largest Tom was my First Eastern, I could not get him to break toward me til noon, but a hen lured him away, I got up used the lay of the land, got next to them clucked once he poked his head up and BOOM.... I find nothing unethical about that? I also had a gobbler once on a ridge, while using the terrain to hide myself to get into position to set up, I ended up coming into view of him at ten yards.I ended that hunt to. I located him through locator calls first. If I see one in a field I won;t run after him I don't think too much of that stuff, but to me the two I explained hear show the use of woodsmanship in my view? Knowing the land and what the birds are doing.

 I don't totally agree with it not being right to set under a roost tree in the evening, you'd set up there before dawn? Why not dusk? Setting and waitng for birds to come through an area is not unethical, it show me that you know and have scouted the birds? Now a food plot? Well it' techincally illegal to do that in this state anyway, you can't knowingly bait Turkeys. But would you set in a plowed field that the birds frequent?

 Jakes I think are a personal prefrence, personally I try and make the entir hunt my trophy, not the size of the bird. Last year I bagged two Jakes and were very special to me, first one was alongside my wife on her first successful hunt. Nothing cooler thatn both of us taggin out on that one. My Second one was with my entire family, my 3 yr old son had never seen me bring home a bird, adn my 7 yr old Daughter was so excitied....that was the trophy in my book. This year my Dad took his first Eastern( Jake) his first bird in over five years. I couldn't be prouder of him.
 Biologically I hav read numerous articles where Jake taking has no ill effects on a flock, turkeys have a 50% mortality rate regardless of hunting or not. SO half those Jakes don't make it through the winter. And also on that the sex ratio of turkey hatches are 50/50. I feel it's a personal preference on that just is spike buck(where legal) and so on. I'm going on a hunt to the SE in hopes for my first Rio, while wanting a Limb hanger If it comes down to the last day I'll shoot a short beard to culminate what no doubt will be a great hunt, regardless if I discharge my gun or not

[turkey slayer]

I agree with Tom Tamer 100% with his last statement.

[Machias]

Great discussion and good points and thoughts, thanks everyone.  One last thought from me, quite a few species we pursue have traditions attached to them.  I don't know many self respecting waterfowlers who shoot ducks and geese while they are swimming amongst the dekes or pheasant and quail hunters who will feel good about shooting birds on the ground or bunched up in a covey.  None of it's illegal it's just how they were raised that's all.  We're pretty lucky in this state as far as turkeys are concerned, I hope they always retain the status of a big game bird and are not looked at and hunted like big grouse.  Good luck to everyone and be safe and I hope once you get past the part about filling your tags you take a little time and look at the history and the long tradition of this great bird and the long hunting heritage behind it.

[fishunt247]

Travis, I guess we differ in some aspects, which is fine. I don't set up right under the roost tree at dawn, partly because where I hunt the birds don't roost in the same tree daily and partly because it is too thick/noisy/crunch to get that close. 100 yards is about as close as I'll get. Also, they don't go the same way everyday. I've had the fortune to hunt the same bird/birds on numerous days and witnessed them going every which way with no set pattern. But if they did hold the same patterns and roost in the same tree, I guess it removes the challenge of calling a gobbler to me is all. It also seems like an ambush, and just I just wouldn't feel right with myself for doing it. Granted, like you said it would be woodsmanship knowing where the turkeys go, but to me hunting them is so much more than woodsmanship.

Also, these birds don't frequent fields. They aren't like the birds in the northeast that hang out in fields. While there are fields there, they don't seem to concern themselves with even showing up in those fields. Even if I know a spot that I've seen birds in or know they frequent, I don't set up there and call blind. I run and gun, find an active gobbler, and work him. Now that I think about it, maybe its not really unethical to do so (only maybe in the sense of a food plot), I guess for me it would just be a little boring.

As with any ethical question, to each his own and I don't want to act like I'm attacking anybody. I hope nobody thinks I'm a "fly fishing only" type purist  , I just know what I'm want and desire to do.

[Phantom Gobbler]

I also feel that the harvesting of a Jake in no way diminishes from the thrill of the spring turkey hunt.  Many consider taking a Jake to be a trophy in it's own right when using 100% fair chase.  I respect an individual's personal preferences and if he sets the bar at a mature gobbler, or a 6 point bull elk, I can understand the rationale.  However, the magic of turkey hunting is venturing into the awakening spring woods and accepting the challenges (and frustrations) of attempting to lure within shotgun or bow range a legal bird, in an ethical and safe manner, while repecting the rights and preferences of our fellow sportsmen.

I have been lucky enough to have harvested both Jakes and Toms in Washington State and each one has provided a unique and treasured memory.  

[Intruder]

My remarks will probably just prove your main point, that the "tradition" of respectable turkey hunting strategies is being lost on new generations in the sport.  However, I have never understood this mentality, that the only way to respectfully harvest a gobbler is by calling one in.  I've called in plenty of bull elk, and I've stalked plenty of bull elk, and I get a similar thrill from both strategies.

It's really an apples to oranges comparison. I too have killed elk by stalking and by calling but it is a whole differenct ball game than turkey hunting.  Again as others have pointed out.... the main reason stalking on turkeys is frowned upon due to the danger involved as well as how often you end up messing other hunters up.  I don't personally like to ambush turkeys but I'm not "against" people doing it.  I am strongly opposed to people stalking turkeys though... too many instances of these things going wrong.