Critique My Rifle Build

[James]

If going with short barrel why get a magnum?  You're just wasting powder. 

I'm a fan of lever guns for western woods carry.  A Browning BLR  is a great choice.  BLRs are nice in that you can use pointed bullets (no tube magazine), and you could put a suppressor on it.  And plenty of caliber choices for elk.   They have nice stainless takedown models as well.  I like the 358 Win or 308 Win in the 20" barrel. 

Otherwise there are 20" barrel standard options from other gun manufacturers.  Some in bolt gun options.   

My western woods elk rifle in the thicker forest areas is a Marlin 336W that I had rebored to 356 Winchester, and I changed out the stock for the composite stock from Ranger Point Precision.  I use a red dot on mine, but some guys put a lightweight scope on theirs for better accuracy at the longer ranges.  My rifle is <6lbs as set up.  Great for carrying, and the recoil pad on the Ranger Point stock does a great job of absorbing recoil.    If I were buying new, I'd get the BLR in stainless takedown with 358Win. 

I haven’t looked at the 358 win, but the problem with something like a 308 win is that with the short barrel it will be too anemic, to the point that copper bullets are not able to be used.  My estimates indicate a 300WSM on the other hand with this short of a barrel will be able to produce 22in 308 win velocities with the same weight bullet. That meets my 350ish yard target well.

Two thoughts....and can't verify either but would look into before I went down the road your going down. 

1.  Monolithic bullets like speed and will not perform well unless you have decent velocities.  I'm not sure you can get said velocities out of an 8-10" barrel with bullets suited for an elk or suited for 350 yard shots. 

2.  300 wsm's performance is going to be greatly diminished in such a short barrel.  I think there are far better rounds to play with if seriously considering an 8-10" barrel.  Not to mention....holding on to a 300 wsm out of an 8-10 inch barrel would be fun to watch!!  Bet it bucks like a bronc even with a suppressor.   

I like tinkering....so if you have the money to throw at it, go for it!!  I want to see the finished product along with video of it's performance....you might be on to the next best thing in rifle chamberings. 

Your first point is exactly why I have honed in on a 300 wsm.  My estimates indicate I should be able to get 22” barrel 308 win velocities with a 8-10” 300 wsm. Many more pedestrian rounds in this short of a barrel drop the velocity too much.

Yes but if your going to hubt with it this year you better get on it.  I will raise the question though.  If you pin or permanenly attach a silence to say a 10" barrel and it come outnto over 16" that would remedy the sbr right?  I remeber somwwhere this was discussed.  Sbr in the military are for close quarter combat.  Longer shots are loner barreled 7.62 caliber or larger.

Solid point on the timelines and a pinned suppressor as a way to get around SBR registration. 

Not being 100% sure of my own opinion but right off the bat I feel as though any factory ammo made for 3oo wsm will have powder of a burn rate for 24" barrels and with the super short barrel you want, Im certain youd have a flame thrower, not a hunting rifle. No way that short tube is going to burn factory ammo powder EFFICIENTLY.  I believe you would have to experiment with faster burning powders far below what the book states for 24" barrels.  I doubt youd even find powder recommendations IN A BOOK for your application.   

I am fully aware factory loaded 300WSM ammo will not be optimize for this, but my hope is that it will work well enough, but as you pointed out the real risk is if it doesn't. I am trying to optimize the overall hunting package, and willing to make a number of sacrifices, ballistics is one of them. I am just trying to figure out if it will all come together in the end.

[Russ McDonald]

So thinking more about this ans talking to some friend.  You are not going to get 350 yards with a short barrel very accuratelyans with much velocity.

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[bearpaw]

A magnum is a poor choice for a short barrel and as mentioned you will need to "very carefully" experiment with powders. My advice would be to discuss with a knowledgeable gunsmith.

You might also send a message to @yorketransport, he has a lot of knowledge regarding high performance calibers in short barrels.

[James]

So thinking more about this ans talking to some friend.  You are not going to get 350 yards with a short barrel very accuratelyans with much velocity.

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I am curious why you and your friend think so.

Shorter barrel has a lower slenderness ratio so it is stiffer for a given diameter.

Do you think I am not going to be getting the muzzle velocities I am predicting?

Do you think I will not be able to get a twist rate that can stabilize the bullet? The bullet should have the same RPM of a 22” barrel 308 win with a similar bullet.

Something I am not thinking of?

[James]

A magnum is a poor choice for a short barrel and as mentioned you will need to "very carefully" experiment with powders. My advice would be to discuss with a knowledgeable gunsmith.

You might also send a message to @yorketransport, he has a lot of knowledge regarding high performance calibers in short barrels.

I guess what I don’t understand is why magnum calibers are a poor choice in this application.

Because when I run the numbers magnum calibers seem to be the only ones that could work, but it is very possible I am missing something.

I have talked to one gunsmith I trust and he thought the biggest risk was if factory ammo would work well enough and it would most likely be a pain to dial in a load for it. I have another I am going to bounce this off of.

Thank you, good call, I have seen some of Yorke’s his builds on here.  He certainly seems to like to do some non typical stuff, hopefully he will have some ideas.

[NRA4LIFE]

Can I come over and see you shoot it at night?  All kidding aside, Buckfvr nailed it.  The burn rates on factory ammo powder are going to be way too slow.  IMO, you may be overestimating your muzzle velocities. 

[bearpaw]

A magnum is a poor choice for a short barrel and as mentioned you will need to "very carefully" experiment with powders. My advice would be to discuss with a knowledgeable gunsmith.

You might also send a message to @yorketransport, he has a lot of knowledge regarding high performance calibers in short barrels.

I guess what I don’t understand is why magnum calibers are a poor choice in this application.

Because when I run the numbers magnum calibers seem to be the only ones that could work, but it is very possible I am missing something.

I have talked to one gunsmith I trust and he thought the biggest risk was if factory ammo would work well enough and it would most likely be a pain to dial in a load for it. I have another I am going to bounce this off of.

Thank you, good call, I have seen some of Yorke’s his builds on here.  He certainly seems to like to do some non typical stuff, hopefully he will have some ideas.

Generally magnum factory ammo is set up for using the length of a 24" or longer barrel to burn the powder. It would be a pain to try a lot of different powders handloading to find what works best, but certainly possible to do, one of the large pistol powders might perform the best, but I don't know, I'm only guessing. I wonder if a large case with a straighter shoulder would do better with fast burning powders than the WSM case can do? I'm not the right person to offer advice, I'm just pointing out some ideas. Send yorketransport a message, he is much more knowledgeable than most people regarding pistol length barrels.

[MeatMissile]

I’d be surprised if you got 2000fps with a 10 inch barrel.  That is at the BOTTOM end for expansion with most monolithic bullets....at the muzzle.  Check out TC Contender pistol load data.  They often use faster powders to get the most out of their short barrels.

[bearpaw]

I’d be surprised if you got 2000fps with a 10 inch barrel.  That is at the BOTTOM end for expansion with most monolithic bullets....at the muzzle.  Check out TC Contender pistol load data.  They often use faster powders to get the most out of their short barrels.

  Probably going to need a long-range style of bullet that will open with minimal velocity, I think the LRX are rated at 1600 fps?

[huntandjeep]

You wanted Critique here it is . 1st you need a $200 tax stamp for the SBR , then another $200 stamp for the Suppressor  , then your going to have to pin and weld a $1000+ Suppressor to the rifle . Which can are you looking at ? Is it even rated for your 300WSM  and the pressure ? If you go through all the above what's the decibel benefit making a 300 Wsm sound like a 30.06 ? Kinda defeats the purpose of a can . No way would I tie up one of my $1000+ Suppressors to one gun .
Probably be better off like others have suggested and just get a lever action..

[BigGoonTuna]

I think a .300 WSM wouldn't be a great choice for an 18" barreled rifle, much less than a 10" barreled one.  Even a pistol round like a .44 magnum is leaving a lot of velocity on the table with a 10" barrel. 

I would look at something with a lot more favorable expansion ratio to start with, a .358 would be a really good choice in a short barreled rifle.

The whole thing about certain chamberings being set up for a barrel length gets thrown around a lot, you can handload a smaller charge of faster powder to decrease muzzle blast, but the fastest(velocity wise) powder in a 24" barrel will still be the fastest powder in a 10" barrel.  I don't think i would want to shoot a 10" .300 WSM even with a can on it, without at least wearing earplugs under my muffs.

[huntandjeep]

.  I don't think i would want to shoot a 10" .300 WSM even with a can on it, without at least wearing earplugs under my muffs.

My 10" AR in 223 is hell.on the ears with no can .

[jrebel]

Out of curiosity, have you built any other short barreled rifles in the past?  If so what chamberings and how did they work? 


A chambering I would seriously consider if you hell bent on a 10" rifle with a range of 350 yards......would be the 460 Smith and Wesson.  it is capable of shooting that range and with the right ammo may even be capable of killing one.  I've see some pretty amazing shots with the 460 our of a custom shop revolver and it may be your ticket to pulling this off. 

With all that said, why not just by the revolver and save yourself a little money?? 

[Fshnpole]

I very well may be wrong, but I dont think your gonna find a can rated for a 10” 300 wsm.  If I were to go super short it would be a 308 porksword chasis and if I had to shoot copper it would be 130gr ttsx.  I think your expectations are unrealistic and even more so choosing to shoot copper.  Only my opinion, not worth much.  Carrying an 18” barreled rifle with a 7” can really isnt all that bad in the thick woods.

[Magnum_Willys]

Yorke does amazing things with his magnum pistols.  He should jump on here soon and point you in the right direction - his pistol in a rifle stock - good to go !