Trappers be aware

[LDennis24]

The rodent was made a big deal of in YNP

"Bison Elk erode stream beds and eat the brush on the banks of the Yellowstone river and no beaver so no fish and global warming"

They've identified beaver as a keystone species

 

Many years ago we trapped out beaver in a lot of areas and if it was farmable land we would straighten out the stream to make it easier to farm along and get rid of the slack loops in the stream.

[jackelope]

Beavers make ponds out of streams which are good for smolt survival. Beaver pond trout fishing can be awesome as long as the water stays cold enough.

Cattle and bison and elk, but mostly cattle these days I’d wager, are terrible bad news for trout and salmon streams from an erosion standpoint.  They don’t need beavers help to ruin small streams.

[KFhunter]

Cattle where?  In feed lots? On private lands?  On FS lands?

Overly broad

I've seen plenty of pastures with eroded stream beds but overtime there's nothing left to really erode, just rock, givin the overall length of the stream its a small fraction

On timber there's a spot or two every so often, but usually so brushed cattle have reduced access points to easy water, and often times fences put in place to protect banks and concentrate cattle in certian areas to limit the erosion.  I'm seeing more and more water tanks put in place to keep cattle off streams.  Management is important and it is happening, it may need accelerated some could argue I suppose

A lot of wetlands with certian habitat have cattle fenced out completely

I just don't agree cattle are eroding streams in such broad terms

[jackelope]

Cattle where?  In feed lots? On private lands?  On FS lands?

Overly broad

My specific experience seeing it is on private ground with small tributary streams. Specifically erosion and feeder springs getting blocked off/plugged up from heavy cattle traffic. Cool water from the springs keeps water temps down. They get blocked off and there’s nothing to help keep water temps down.

[KFhunter]

I'm not a fan of increasing regulation especially on private lands, but I would support volunteers and outreach to try to improve some of these situations

[JimmyHoffa]

Cattle where?  In feed lots? On private lands?  On FS lands?

Overly broad

My specific experience seeing it is on private ground with small tributary streams. Specifically erosion and feeder springs getting blocked off/plugged up from heavy cattle traffic. Cool water from the springs keeps water temps down. They get blocked off and there’s nothing to help keep water temps down.

One neighbor has been having a terrible time with a development due to wetland restrictions.  The land wasn't a wetland, but other neighbors ran a ditch through the area.  The cattle walked through it so much that it was converted from a quick, straight ditch to a big swampy cattail field.

[KFhunter]

I fished a few of those streams in Pomeroy, which is probably where you're referring.

1 foot wide, 7 foot deep!  which was weird to me

I don't know how much those heat up vs wide shallow streams

[jackelope]

I fished a few of those streams in Pomeroy, which is probably where you're referring.

1 foot wide, 7 foot deep!  which was weird to me

I don't know how much those heat up vs wide shallow streams

I thought about Pomeroy, specifically Pataha Creek, but that’s not where I’m specifically talking about. I think those 1’ wide by 7’ deep creeks happen because of runoff and gully washers.
The one I’m specifically talking about is the Teanaway. It happens everywhere.

[KFhunter]

I don't know that one, no one is gonna fix it all but again I'd support some outreach and volunteers to fence off critical areas

If a person runs cattle they have a responsibility to the land they use, some will be better than others at it for sure

[jackelope]

I don't know that one, no one is gonna fix it all but again I'd support some outreach and volunteers to fence off critical areas

If a person runs cattle they have a responsibility to the land they use, some will be better than others at it for sure

The sketchy cloudy gray area is that a lot of the land on the Teanaway was bought up by the “Teanaway Community Forest” and is being rehab’d. There’s lot of now public land that was once private. Hunting and fishing is allowed, but it’s definitely a greenie group.

[buckfvr]

Its easier for special interest groups to beat up hunters than it is to beat up cattlemen.

[jackelope]

Its easier for special interest groups to beat up hunters than it is to beat up cattlemen.

This special interest group bought the property and made it public. I’m not a member or anything like that and I’ve done very little research on it. Have a trout guide buddy who told me about it. He also told me it’s open to hunting and fishing. Just closed off now to cattle.

[teanawayslayer]

I don't know that one, no one is gonna fix it all but again I'd support some outreach and volunteers to fence off critical areas

If a person runs cattle they have a responsibility to the land they use, some will be better than others at it for sure

The sketchy cloudy gray area is that a lot of the land on the Teanaway was bought up by the “Teanaway Community Forest” and is being rehab’d. There’s lot of now public land that was once private. Hunting and fishing is allowed, but it’s definitely a greenie group.

most of the land in the teanaway was afr and plum creek. It has always been open to the public with motor vehicle restrictions that most ignored. The community forest is enforcing the rules.

[jackelope]

Good info. Didn’t know that.

[LDennis24]

So as a person that has been around cattle my entire life I'll say that it's not the cattles fault the stream bank is being eroded. Cattle tend to use the same crossing on water and drink from the same locations as all animals do. The straightening of the stream caused the water to run quicker and like you said, created gully washers that erode the bank. Most stream beds out in the open country like the Palouse had trees covering them or at least shading a good portion of them a hundred years ago. I've talked to old timers who said the valley had willows growing all down it in places but they grow too quickly and would bust and fall apart and fall into the field edges and they needed that extra twenty feet for farming. Homesteaders needed timber for building barns and animal shelters and sometimes houses. They cut every single tree into a log they could utilize. Landscaping back then was for the sole purpose of survival. And I'm not talking front yard todays style landscaping. I mean totally changing the landscape around you. They killed all the beavers and muskrats for warm clothing to stay alive and nice hats and castoreum perfume. Then they dug out stream beds without realizing or maybe caring they were destroying habitat. Beaver dams cause huge areas to be flooded when a sudden change in water flow comes down the valley. That's not beneficial to humans trying to make it on the prairie or anywhere where you are going to homestead near water. I feel like their efforts to stop people from trapping will be futile and regretful when those beaver eat the riparian habitat they build quicker than they can plant it. But I also believe beavers serve a huge beneficial purpose to habitat. I don't believe trappers should budge an inch on this one. There should just be more conservation efforts put into reforesting stream beds and beaver will naturally expand on their own. Let them spend their money planting beaver snacks and leave trapping alone.