Another to shoot or not to shoot

[In_Grained_Outdoors]

I'm still hunting through some 15-20 year reprod in logging country. As quiet as one could do that lol. I make my way down seeing what I thought was some fresh fir needles distributed by elk. I follow them to an opening where I see a elk rub that looks to be a week old. I'm looking at the rub and off to my left see a bear den. Is den was like nothing I have seen. It's was right in between two dead trees buried straight down in the ground then kind of opens up. The opening diameter of the hole was only 2ft at best. After seeing this I decided I will make my way back out as it seems the elk haven't been this way. On my way out I'm still seeing very fresh sign. Wind is at my nose and I'm just creeping. About 40 yards ahead of me to my right I hear a bear start to pop its jaws at me. Then I hear a maaaa...... maaaa..... at this point I have never been this close to know what that sound of a bear popping their jaws so I just listen. About 30 seconds later I see her right infront of me. She is a cinnamon color sow about 150lbs. Right behind her is a jet black cub about 40-50lbs. She sends the cub up the tree 30 yards infront of me(it's amazing how fast they climb). She is now coming to my left trying to get my wind. If I would have paralleled her I would have had the perfect opening for a shot. Being with a cub one she is probably more aggressive two I have always been told to is taboo to shoot a sow with cubs. That being said this area is absolutely infested with bears and they are almost impossible to kill because of the thick coverage. I decided that it was a cool encounter and decided to push out. On my way I made my presence know saying hey bear and crossing where my scent would cross her. I'm interested to know what the bear hunting community thinks of the encounter.

[duckmen1]

Hard pass. But cool encounter. Consider the encounter a success.

[jrebel]

Enjoy the encounter, maybe take a few pics....and move one. 

[boneaddict]

I’m not sure I’ve actually ever met a hunter who thinks killing a sow with Cubs is ok.  I’m pretty sure I don’t want to.   Always fun to watch.  Can be a bit of a dangerous situation. 

[MountainWalk]

Boneaddict, believe it or not, and I abhor the practice, but this happens quite often on Prince of Wales island.  Not very many residents hunt per se bear, but many shoot any bear they see and don’t follow up, or care about what it is they are shooting.  Very few bear and wolf hunters, but they complain about the lack of deer in their areas. Pretty sad deal. Lots of culls on that island, and I’m not talking about logs.

[Angry Perch]

I’m not sure I’ve actually ever met a hunter who thinks killing a sow with Cubs is ok.  I’m pretty sure I don’t want to.   Always fun to watch.  Can be a bit of a dangerous situation.

Killing an animal is one thing. Making one starve to death or become an easy meal is another.

[trophyhunt]

I’m not sure I’ve actually ever met a hunter who thinks killing a sow with Cubs is ok.  I’m pretty sure I don’t want to.   Always fun to watch.  Can be a bit of a dangerous situation.

  now of course if she charged me, sorry but I’m going home.

[jrebel]

Curious why your first two (only two) post are ethical shoot / no shoot scenarios about bear.  Are you trying to get hunters to admit or say they would shoot a sow with cubs.....or in the first scenario shoot a bear without observing long enough to see if their were cubs with that bear? 

I don't know a hunter that would shoot a sow knowing it had a cub.  I have property hat has an overabundance of bears that I would love to have gone....and I still won't shoot the sows with cubs.  Our state is jacked up in the fact that our spring bear season has been taken away, we can't bait and we can't run dogs.  Bears become opportunistic kills for most hunters and even then...most hunters pass on sows with known cubs.  If our state wanted to insure sows with cubs were not targeted, they would allow baiting / running dogs.  The fact that they don't, the sows that are shot with cubs (my guess anyway) is due to the opportunistic hunter shooting a bear that presents a very small window of opportunity. 

Now the talk of taking away trail cameras.....which would add that much more complexity to some bear hunters.  I know which sows have cubs long before hunting season.  We know if we see said bears (regardless of cubs being present) to not shoot.  Eliminate trail cameras and even more sows will get shot that have cubs. 

Sorry for the rant......you may be legit.....but your only two post make me suspicious of your intent.  I hope it is...what it is....and you are just trying to learn, thus inquiring about instances you have experienced this year.   Hunters already don't trust our Commissioners, WDFW officers, Governor, etc.....if your fishing for anything else....

[In_Grained_Outdoors]

Jrebel- I think your confusion is due to another forum member logola512c had posted a to shoot or not to shoot. After reading his I decided that I would post my bear encounter. My second post was about archery equipment on a g3 stinger ( check it out if you would like). I would like to think hunters live by an ethical code and such we should follow. Like I said the area I hunt is damn near impossible to hunt bears consistently so I have not seen many taken or had the chance to confer about this situation. My code has always been don't take a shot unless you are confident and to follow my gut. My gut in this situation was to exit with out conflict. She was clearly not happy and could not smell me. This could have ended very differently.

My point of this post was not to discuss trail camera usage or try and bait anyone into admit anything. Instead it was purely a cool encounter I wanted to share and get the community's opinions.

[Fidelk]

You're alive.....the sow is alive......and the cub isn't slowly starving to death. WIN, WIN, WIN. If she had attempted to attack, a quick warning shot could have been tried, if that didn't work, then shooting her would have been a responsible choice.......followed up with a report to F&W to see if they wanted to come and catch the cub and ship it off to a zoo.

[jrebel]

Jrebel- I think your confusion is due to another forum member logola512c had posted a to shoot or not to shoot. After reading his I decided that I would post my bear encounter. My second post was about archery equipment on a g3 stinger ( check it out if you would like). I would like to think hunters live by an ethical code and such we should follow. Like I said the area I hunt is damn near impossible to hunt bears consistently so I have not seen many taken or had the chance to confer about this situation. My code has always been don't take a shot unless you are confident and to follow my gut. My gut in this situation was to exit with out conflict. She was clearly not happy and could not smell me. This could have ended very differently.

My point of this post was not to discuss trail camera usage or try and bait anyone into admit anything. Instead it was purely a cool encounter I wanted to share and get the community's opinions.

That would make sense.  I didn't go back to check the first post....and assumed...(I know)...that your two post were about bear encounters.  With all the bear talk lately, I am a little sensitive to the topic.  I don't like how sneaky our WDFW or Anti's can be, thus posing questions that could help them draw conclusions that aren't their. 

Still think it is a cool encounter....pics of the cub in the tree would have been neat. 

 

[In_Grained_Outdoors]

Truly I'm a hunter that keeps to myself. I go out of my way to not talk with others in my area. For the reason many people want alot information and don't do any leg work. I was hoping this forum could be a good place to get out of the cool encounters I have while I'm hunting. Truly not trying to stir anything up.

[Fidelk]

Your initial post was perfectly straightforward and clear and your actions sounded like those of a responsible hunter.

[pd]

Sorry if I am in the wrong here, but I would have shot the sow.  Pure and simple, I don't care about cubby boy up the tree.

Not for the meat, or the hide, or to fill my tag, but because Momma Bear was right in front of me, popping her jaw at me.

Y'all can say what you want to me, but I am being honest with myself and with you.  I would have shot her.

[duckmen1]

Sorry if I am in the wrong here, but I would have shot the sow.  Pure and simple, I don't care about cubby boy up the tree.

Not for the meat, or the hide, or to fill my tag, but because Momma Bear was right in front of me, popping her jaw at me.

Y'all can say what you want to me, but I am being honest with myself and with you.  I would have shot her.

Everyone has their own opinion about safety. Think of a rattler rattling at you. It's a warning sign and you can walk away. Same thing with bears. In a lot of cases they show defense a lot before truely attacking. So simply popping its jaw is giving me time to back out safetly of the scenario and being prepared while backing out. I got caught up in a scenario this year where we were out and a bear came out of no where. Started charging and gun was drawn and ready quickly. But as the bear got to 10 yards it spun a 180 and took off. Most would have shot. I did not. Probably less than 1 or 2 seconds and there would have been a shot. But glad it turned when it did. Seemed like a very close call and adrenaline was pumping. Point is bears typically try to show dominance and show they think they are boss of the woods but still most of the time they are just as scared and will typically turn away. Or at times you have time to turn away. If I saw a bear at 40 yards popping its jaw. I am not just gonna shoot because I see it popping its jaw. Its just a warning saying give some space. Knowing how to identify warnings vs true intent of harm can make a big difference. But always be prepared in case of the worse case.

[Bullkllr]

40 yards? Nahh.

[boneaddict]

Honesty is awesome PD and the willingness to talk about it.   

If I shot every bear that ever popped its jaws at me, YIKES   I think it was duckmen up above that made the comment, its a way of communication.   A doe or a cow stamping her foot etc.  Any animal can hand it to you at any time.     Its a mother defending her cubs, I doubt she wants to cuddle.   At least she is communicating.     

[Tbar]

Curious why your first two (only two) post are ethical shoot / no shoot scenarios about bear.  Are you trying to get hunters to admit or say they would shoot a sow with cubs.....or in the first scenario shoot a bear without observing long enough to see if their were cubs with that bear? 

I don't know a hunter that would shoot a sow knowing it had a cub.  I have property hat has an overabundance of bears that I would love to have gone....and I still won't shoot the sows with cubs.  Our state is jacked up in the fact that our spring bear season has been taken away, we can't bait and we can't run dogs.  Bears become opportunistic kills for most hunters and even then...most hunters pass on sows with known cubs.  If our state wanted to insure sows with cubs were not targeted, they would allow baiting / running dogs.  The fact that they don't, the sows that are shot with cubs (my guess anyway) is due to the opportunistic hunter shooting a bear that presents a very small window of opportunity. 

Now the talk of taking away trail cameras.....which would add that much more complexity to some bear hunters.  I know which sows have cubs long before hunting season.  We know if we see said bears (regardless of cubs being present) to not shoot.  Eliminate trail cameras and even more sows will get shot that have cubs. 

Sorry for the rant......you may be legit.....but your only two post make me suspicious of your intent.  I hope it is...what it is....and you are just trying to learn, thus inquiring about instances you have experienced this year.   Hunters already don't trust our Commissioners, WDFW officers, Governor, etc.....if your fishing for anything else....

This is a great post jrebel. We have to be careful especially on the internet and communicate our reality and ethics. I had nearly an identical reaction when I read this. I didn't look at your post as a rant but rather a word of caution that is appreciated.  I do appreciate ingrained outdoors sharing an experience but the shoot out no shoot scenarios seemed odd to say the least. I have had dozens of similar scenarios where shooting has not only not happened it has not been considered including several false charges. Thank you for your thoughtful post jrebel and thank you for the clarification ingrained outdoors both are valuable IMHO.

[pianoman9701]

To the OP: Good post and good, ethical decision not to shoot. If there's anything to karma, you've got a nice boar in your future.