STOP KILLING THE BABY MAKERS

[Ridgeratt]

Wdfw will cook the books to whatever narrative they want.

[buckfvr]

As much as I agree with you with the oh so many factors…..

This is what I am spelling out.

If you have a corral with a bull and 2 cows in it.    You kill one of the cows, what does that do to next years production.

Now if your last cow dies of a disease, lightning strike,  or a coyote eats it’s calf, where are you on production.   

If you have a bull and 10 cows, eating one, not such a big deal

If you have a pen with a bull and 15 cows, you better eat one so they don’t starve or get diseased.   

What I am hearing from some is that we are entitled to eat that cow as it’s perfectly legal to do so.  the ranch is being run by some dimwit back in Olympia, who probably has never set foot on a farm, but is advising that yes, that last cow looks tasty. Let’s eat her!   

I’m afraid so buckfvr

A different perspective....

The corral (WA ST) has 5 bulls (Bucks) and 20 cows (Does).

Hunting season comes along and massive amounts of hunters with various weapons, and 2+ months worth of seasons to kill something.

Hunters kill 4 of the 5 Bucks, The one remaining buck is safe, but he has to migrate, which will quite possibly take him across at least one paved road. WHAMMO, enter the vehicle whos driver is possibly looking at their cell phone and does not see the buck till its to late.

This scenario can only happen if that last buck is lucky enough to escape the ever growing predator population.

The results in the corral are now zero bucks and 9 does (vehicles and preds. got the other 11)


How does the population grow when there are ZERO bucks to breed the does?



PS, forgot to add the length add effects of Native harvest, that should put us in the negative column for bucks,

Everyone has overlooked the saving aspect of all this doom.  The commission.  They wont let this happen, they will step in and close hunting season to save us from ourselves.  In so doing, they will preserve the seed crop of animals we were hell bent on destroying.  Change is coming, and its not going to look like any of these fantasy lists.   

[Jake Dogfish]

Are you guys burning your general tag to.

6 years now, but I hurt peoples feelings asking them not to shoot a doe     I'll let you craft that roll out.

imo burning a general tag only lowers the % of deer taken in the state that the WDFW uses to estimate numbers. If that occurs than the state will issue more tags and assume more deer are out there than actually are.

This makes no sense to me.   

[NOCK NOCK]

You think hot does don't get attention due to lack of bucks?

They can be as hot as you like, if there is no buck there to do the deed..........I guess there is always immaculate conception.

As a possible scenario.....the last deer to show on one of my cams last year was a doe. 6000' on December 22nd, 12"+ of snow. This is in a migration area.
It is quite possible that this doe never got bred.    One would typically believe that the bucks will be in the general area of where the majority of does are when they come into heat. In this area, that would be several thousand feet lower elevation, and 10-15 miles as a crow flies away.

Again it is nearly impossible for EVERY doe to get bred.

[KFhunter]

Well, it's kind of impossible to get more than about a 5:1 buck doe ratio, and one buck can cover more than 5 does

So I think doe's not getting covered is a myth.  Unless they're barren or had a male twin, and I doubt there's a whole lot of barren does. 

Some just loose their fawns immediately year after year because a bear (typically) or other predator has their birthing location pegged and get them every year not long after it's dropped. 

[Lapua07]

Mule deer hunting with a 6 year old is going flawlessly

[KFhunter]

love it!

got some good distance going there 

[Lapua07]

Quit worrying about killing and start enjoying what most don't.

[Lapua07]

Quit worrying about killing and start enjoying what most don't.

He's neat. Hardly cares if we see deer let alone killing one. He's probably friends with more natives then I'll ever be. Even the game gougers we talked to this year were more than happy to give him stickers. Just glad to call him mine.

[GWP]

Mule deer hunting with a 6 year old is going flawlessly

Really cool pic!

[NRA4LIFE]

That mullet is epic.

[boneaddict]

LOL, thats fantastic.    Fun times

[C-Money]

Awesome! That boy play hockey? Solid hair flow there with the mullet. Good times! 

[Ironhead]

A few observations I have noticed in my neck of the woods..
1) Cougars are in very very healthy numbers.
2) A lot of the healthiest mature Bucks do not come down low to breed. They will stay up high 4000 feet and breed the remaining Does up high. Until the snow is DEEP!
3) There is a lot of interbreeding going on between Muley's and Blacktails as well as Muley's and Whitetails.
4) A young, rutted up Buck will cover a lot of ground looking for hot Does.
5) Younger Bucks 2-3.5 year olds are doing the majority of the breeding.
6) Not many Fawns born the last 2 years.
7) Does are getting pounded in the early season by short range weapon hunters. Many of these Does have Fawns.
Just some of my observations living in the middle of prime Mule Deer winter ground.

[bearpaw]

I'm convinced mother nature, in the form of hard winters and blue tongue or other diseases has the largest impact on ungulate herd numbers. In a single month our herds can go from robust to dismal. Humans certainly can have big impacts via hunting, auto collisions, land use, letting dogs run loose, etc., but human impacts are nothing like the hard courses of nature!

You can look at all the cities and towns that have deer infestations, farmer fields full of deer and elk, oilfields with trophy elk and deer, and it shows humans can be compatible with ungulates. Consistently through the years my best hunting is mostly on leased ranch lands that are heavily grazed by cattle and sheep. One of my best elk hunts and also a good deer hunt is also one of the most productive oil and gas fields in the west. Yet I can go into excellent winter range areas in northeast WA that used to be full of deer in late winter and its hard to find any deer, further proof that winter range is not the most limiting factor.

With all of that said, if you talk to most biologists in hunting oriented states (not Washington) they will tell you that antlerless hunting is used to regulate herd size. Because many Washington herds are probably at or near all time lows I have to say at this time I somewhat agree with boneaddict because every doe in these areas is needed for fawning.

Here's where I have to disagree, once the WDFW sets a season and includes xxx doe permits in an area, I don't blame anyone for applying for the permit, if they don't get it someone else will? Like many other hunters I like to eat wild game, I put in for lots of antlerless tags through the years and will continue to do so. Perhaps if hunters could all agree to all throw away doe tags in areas with low deer or elk numbers that could make a difference, honestly I don't think that would ever happen.

It's going to be a very slow deer recovery this time due to the unprecedented predator footprint in Washington, I doubt herds will ever reach the numbers they once were, with so many predators that mathematically seems impossible.