Winch Rigging and Anchor loads

[KFhunter]

Oh man, I don't think I'd use china stuff 

[High Climber]

Thanks highclimber, appreciate the info.

Regarding Working load limits, here is what I settled on:  pick gear with a WLL equal to or greater than the force you expect to see.  The Max breaking load is your margin for safety.

In other words, if you expect to see 9 tons on a snatch block, get one with a 10 Ton WLL.  If the Max Breaking limit is 15Tons, then your safety margin is 6 tons.

Would you agree?

Yes that is a good line of thinking.
Also WLL or SWL is different for different components of rigging, they have different safety factors (shackles, slings, blocks, wire rope vs fiber rope etc)
Also, I guarantee that the winch line on your 12k winch isn’t rated for 12k lbs… probably closer to 2,500 or 3,000 FYI.  Most times when your stuck it won’t be an issue because the actual pull required might be less than that if it’s just a traction issue.  but if you are buried pretty good, consider starting with at least a 2 parted recovery to save your winch line.

[Magnum_Willys]

Also, I guarantee that the winch line on your 12k winch isn’t rated for 12k lbs… probably closer to 2,500 or 3,000 FYI.

All the 12k winch synthetic ropes have breaking strength over 12k.  A typical quality 3/8” rope has a minimum breaking strength of 17,800 lbs.   You could actually squeeze by with a quality 5/16 but I would stick to 3/8”.

[High Climber]

Also, I guarantee that the winch line on your 12k winch isn’t rated for 12k lbs… probably closer to 2,500 or 3,000 FYI.

All the 12k winch synthetic ropes have breaking strength over 12k.  A typical quality 3/8” rope has a minimum breaking strength of 17,800 lbs.   You could actually squeeze by with a quality 5/16 but I would stick to 3/8”.

Agreed, but we are talking safe working loads not breaking strength
14,200 is also very common breaking strength for 3/8 EIPS wire rope, 5:1 safety factor puts it at 2840 SWL

[buckfvr]

Thanks highclimber, appreciate the info.

Regarding Working load limits, here is what I settled on:  pick gear with a WLL equal to or greater than the force you expect to see.  The Max breaking load is your margin for safety.

In other words, if you expect to see 9 tons on a snatch block, get one with a 10 Ton WLL.  If the Max Breaking limit is 15Tons, then your safety margin is 6 tons.

Would you agree?

Yes that is a good line of thinking.
Also WLL or SWL is different for different components of rigging, they have different safety factors (shackles, slings, blocks, wire rope vs fiber rope etc)
Also, I guarantee that the winch line on your 12k winch isn’t rated for 12k lbs… probably closer to 2,500 or 3,000 FYI.  Most times when your stuck it won’t be an issue because the actual pull required might be less than that if it’s just a traction issue.  but if you are buried pretty good, consider starting with at least a 2 parted recovery to save your winch line.

Yes this and NO China stuff.  Im a retired crane operator and Ive seen many rigging failures.  Not to hijack, but FOR VEHICLE RECOVERY, as this seems to be mainly about, Im a fan of synthetic ropes, recovery rings, and soft shackles.  I have half a dozen soft shackles and over 100ft of ropes plus heavy nylon straps and recovery rings.  I have done winch less recoveries with comealongs.  I have used winches, but dont have one myself (except on quad) because Ive learned to avoid most bad things.  Good equipment is expensive but worth every cent if you need it.  A winch isnt always useable and a large number of stuck vehicles usually only need the assistance of another truck to give them a tug. I always carry what I need to be extracted by another vehicle, and Ill say if you are exceedingly adventurous, Its always best to go with another rig.  That being said, weve all been stuck on solos. 

Because of my many years of work experience, I dont advocate used worn out cables, especially if theyve been repaired or spliced.  You dont know how bad theyve yielded and you could easily end up injured.  Besides, anything not certified and in new condition wasnt allowed on the jobs, by law.

If you look around on youtube theres tons of stuff on synthetic rigging, even making your own eyes and soft shackles, plus and accident with a steel shackle that was launched by a break in the rigging and went through the windshield and killed the driver.  Another thing I didnt see mentioned is choking with cables.  That significantly reduces their capacity.

[hunter399]

If you are putting wheel blocks under a vehicle you are trying to pull out, you have bigger issues than the strength of the anchor it is attached to!!!

Why would I put an anchor or wheel blocks on the vehicle your pulling out ,that's crazy.

And yes I would block the wheels on the vehicle with the winch ,doing the pull.

Let this blow your minds.
If I cut a block of wood 32in long ,basically twice the length of a piece of firewood. Split into quarter,snug them under the tires ,like a glove.

Do you think your winch is gonna have a harder time dragging that truck.

When you do that ,you making the surface area of your tires wider,and the firewood is gonna bite into the ground better than your tires ever will.


You should hook your winch to a tree,parking brake,emergency brake apply. Drag your truck a few feet.
Then do it block up as I described.
Tell me how much harder your winch had to work to pull it.

Like said in other comments.
There never is a tree where you need it to be.
You might have to compromise.

Your truck is an anchor,just have to figure out how to keep it from moving .

[Magnum_Willys]

No hunter uses overhead crane or man carrying 5:1 working load limit standards for vehicle recovery winches.   An 18000 lb rope on a 12k winch is all you need.  You don’t need or want a very short 60,000 lb rope on a 12,000 lb winch.   Have winched out a 12,000 lb deuce and a half many times with a 5/16 cable.   

[ghosthunter]

Puzzle for today.

I have a 2k portable winch.
Got to get this stump 2 ft out of the hole and up the ramp into my trailer.

Going to park the trailer hooked to the truck at the hole.
Anchor straps to the trailer frame and truck.
Run a snatch to the stump and back to trailer.

The winch will be 50 ft behind the stump hooked to a tree.



How many snatches will I need?

We will see.

Later.

[KFhunter]

Puzzle for today.
I have a 2k portable winch.
Got to get this stump 2 ft out of the hole


How many snatches will I need?

Zero


You need a bonfire

[KFhunter]

Puzzle for today.

I have a 2k portable winch.
Got to get this stump 2 ft out of the hole and up the ramp into my trailer.

Going to park the trailer hooked to the truck at the hole.
Anchor straps to the trailer frame and truck.
Run a snatch to the stump and back to trailer.

The winch will be 50 ft behind the stump hooked to a tree.



How many snatches will I need?

We will see.

Later.

If no fire..

Don't do a direct pull.   Wrap the chain around the stump down low as you can and put the tail of the chain opposite of the trailer, so the chain is up over the stump rolling it out instead of pulling it out

[ghosthunter]

Well the verdict is in.

[Rob]

If you are putting wheel blocks under a vehicle you are trying to pull out, you have bigger issues than the strength of the anchor it is attached to!!!

Why would I put an anchor or wheel blocks on the vehicle your pulling out ,that's crazy.

And yes I would block the wheels on the vehicle with the winch ,doing the pull.

Let this blow your minds.
If I cut a block of wood 32in long ,basically twice the length of a piece of firewood. Split into quarter,snug them under the tires ,like a glove.

Do you think your winch is gonna have a harder time dragging that truck.

When you do that ,you making the surface area of your tires wider,and the firewood is gonna bite into the ground better than your tires ever will.


You should hook your winch to a tree,parking brake,emergency brake apply. Drag your truck a few feet.
Then do it block up as I described.
Tell me how much harder your winch had to work to pull it.

Like said in other comments.
There never is a tree where you need it to be.
You might have to compromise.

Your truck is an anchor,just have to figure out how to keep it from moving .

I was introducing humor to the thread since it was not clear what was being chocked...  I don't know you but I am pretty sure you would not chock the wheels of the vehicle being extracted!

[Magnum_Willys]

Well the verdict is in.

You did that portable proud !
 

[Rob]

Well done!

[ghosthunter]

Well I had to change my original  plan but all worked.

I dug around it. And dug around it more. Tried to straight pull with one block. The winch moved it in the hole but couldn’t drag it up the two ft lip.

Added another block at trailer near winch and ran back to stump and put a third block than back to winch.

That got it started and up to ramp.

I than took a blue 5000k strap and wrapped it Lower around the stump and connected it to the chain which I had in place already.

Pulled it right in the trailer with power to spare.

Although not sur how I will get out of trailer at the dump site.