Winter Kill Stats

[cpawlowski19]

Idaho, Wyoming and Utah are reporting higher than average snow packs and subsequently higher than expected winter kill statistics. Has anyone heard anything or seen projections for Washington?


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[hunter399]

Idaho, Wyoming and Utah are reporting higher than average snow packs and subsequently higher than expected winter kill statistics. Has anyone heard anything or seen projections for Washington?


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I have no statistic for Washington.
Our biologists will say they are just fine.
My personal opinion may be different.

I believe we are at a 50/50 or mixed bag or whatever you want to call it.
Cause in low elevation winter grounds where deer have some type of supplemental feeding.
Seems like deer and elk are doing great.
Glass half full here.....
Go to any high elevation area ,3feet or more of super hard snow.
Not one track,no deer,no elk,nothing.

Now you have to take into consideration ,did those animals go down lower to winter,or did they get stuck in the mountains.

With that said I can only speak for areas I've been this year already.
Washington is not as bad as these other states.
Animals that got stuck in the mountains probably didn't do well. Washington my opinion most likely had a normal winter die off. With higher elevations being more serious.

[cpawlowski19]

Idaho, Wyoming and Utah are reporting higher than average snow packs and subsequently higher than expected winter kill statistics. Has anyone heard anything or seen projections for Washington?


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I have no statistic for Washington.
Our biologists will say they are just fine.
My personal opinion may be different.

I believe we are at a 50/50 or mixed bag or whatever you want to call it.
Cause in low elevation winter grounds where deer have some type of supplemental feeding.
Seems like deer and elk are doing great.
Glass half full here.....
Go to any high elevation area ,3feet or more of super hard snow.
Not one track,no deer,no elk,nothing.

Now you have to take into consideration ,did those animals go down lower to winter,or did they get stuck in the mountains.

With that said I can only speak for areas I've been this year already.
Washington is not as bad as these other states.
Animals that got stuck in the mountains probably didn't do well. Washington my opinion most likely had a normal winter die off. With higher elevations being more serious.

Thanks for the opinion - I guess we’ll see when areas open for scouting later in the spring.


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[hunter399]

Idaho, Wyoming and Utah are reporting higher than average snow packs and subsequently higher than expected winter kill statistics. Has anyone heard anything or seen projections for Washington?


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One other thing to consider with these other states.
Not the depth of snow,but late spring,no green up,late snow on the winter grounds.

They can pile any depth in the mountains,late spring and no green,low temps,low elevation snow is the killer.
5 months of winter is pretty ruff.

[huntnnw]

to just ask about WA in general is far too broad. Way too many different areas and species to break down.

[cpawlowski19]

to just ask about WA in general is far too broad. Way too many different areas and species to break down.

My main thought is high buck regions - but I didn’t want to focus on those as being specific on locations has gotten me in trouble on forums in the past….


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[baldopepper]

Animals don't get stuck in the mtns.  They get down outta there.  I think we've pretty well dodged the bullet in Washington. What is getting those states is there was no escaping the winter.  They got early snow, then freezing weather and the cycle continued from November until now. Here early snow and then some melt and then a little more snow but continued to get some clearing between storms. Our storms were not nearly as heavy as those state have had either nor did it get down as low into the wintering areas.  They also had terrible drought conditions going into the winter that kept normal browse in poor condition all summer and fall.  Kind of a perfect pattern for bad winter kill. Road kill has also been terrible in those states.

[huntnphool]

 The wolf winter kill has been devastating! Look for substantial decreases in ungulate hunting permits to compensate for wolf sustainability!

[cpawlowski19]

The wolf winter kill has been devastating! Look for substantial decreases in ungulate hunting permits to compensate for wolf sustainability!

That could be a thing this year….three tag categories - resident, non-resident and predator


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[hunter399]

Animals don't get stuck in the mtns.  They get down outta there.  I think we've pretty well dodged the bullet in Washington. What is getting those states is there was no escaping the winter.  They got early snow, then freezing weather and the cycle continued from November until now. Here early snow and then some melt and then a little more snow but continued to get some clearing between storms. Our storms were not nearly as heavy as those state have had either nor did it get down as low into the wintering areas.  They also had terrible drought conditions going into the winter that kept normal browse in poor condition all summer and fall.  Kind of a perfect pattern for bad winter kill. Road kill has also been terrible in those states.

It kinda a phrase that I use.
"Getting stuck in the mountains."
Yes I agree all animals will migrate .
It the energy and lack of food,if they waited to long to migrate.
Big storms,4 feet of snow in a 24 hour period.
Deer or elk have to migrate now through 4 feet of snow 5-10 miles down.
Even when they hit winter grounds ,low elevation,there as good as dead. They used to much ,to get to a spot where they can survive.

Another phrase I used was
"Supplemental feeding"

That's not just people feeding,that's anytime they are eating stuff that is not browse.
Field that's not plowed,breaking into hay sheds,livestock feed areas,an old bale left in the field.
Snowplowed along the edge of a road and there is some grass showing.
Anything man made ,that will cause them to eat stuff that isn't browse.

[hunter399]

The wolf winter kill has been devastating! Look for substantial decreases in ungulate hunting permits to compensate for wolf sustainability!

Well that's a double edge sword for sure.
Our biologists say our wolf population only went up last year by a few wolves.
So no tag reductions needed right.
At the same time we all know they are wrong,alot more than they claim.
Cat and mouse game.
So how do we manage ungulate numbers for wolves ,when the number of wolves stays the same every year.
They will wait ,hit us with a big ,dramatic ,number of wolves down the road. Then try to reduce tags after most of the deer and elk are gone anyway.

It's a well known fact that they don't give a @$!# about NE Washington. The state's resources here are just a cash cow for them. They are gonna milk it till it's powder milk.
Or till all hunting in this corner is permit only ,and start milking for more powder milk.

[hunter399]

We did have a few big storms this winter.
Any ungulate above 3500-4000 elevation.
That didn't migrate soon enough,dead . guaranteed in my area.

Washington has very diverse habitat and climate from one end to the other. So I can only say for my area.

You can also bet those same deer/elk that did migrate had predators in there tracks the whole way down.

[cpawlowski19]

I guess we’ll just have to wait and see what the biologists say. With the current ideological leanings of some in the commission (wanting to declare coyotes a protects species - what?!?) we’ll always have problems with tag numbers and predator control (no spring bear but we “follow science”) but hopefully the biologists and hunters can work together to manage our ungulate populations for good health and good hunting.


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[buckfvr]

IF, IF they even address the issue, dont expect one darn iota of truth from ANYONE at wdfw unless you are privy to confidential information through a true friend or family member, and then youd be violating their confidence by posting it on here.

[hunter399]

As far as winter kill,or wolves,Heck even the bluetongue.
Drought conditions we had in 2021.
A bunch of ungulate die off.

I like to think they manage healthy herds for sustainable hunting purposes. Maybe at one time they did years ago.
Just not the case any more.
I wouldn't expect much,or the truth as buckfvr said.