How long is too long ----Reloading

[hunter399]

So I reloaded some 270 win to COAL 3.285
With 150gr hot cor bullet.
It was jamming into the rifling.
Bolt did close,seemed a little snug ,which was my first red flag.
I was trying to get it sighted in,got to the third round ,loaded a round,then tried to eject. It wasn't happening,stuck in there.
So since the other two fired fine,I just shot it off.
No stiff bolt,or problem eject after fired.

Got home measured some factory rounds.
Most of those came out 3.230
Pressed my reloads down to factory .
Load and eject fine,like not jammed now.


Does it seem like my savage axis has a short chamber?
The reload data I used,calls for a Hornady soft point.
I realize Hornady has a different ogive,but didn't think it would put me into the rifling that quickly.

What do you guys think?
I'll post a pic of reload data used.
Except my powder charge was 56 grain,I just rounded it off.
I guess just a warning to others not to do what I do sometimes.

[duckmen1]

A lot of variables on the subject. I have gun that one bullet will give a COAL and it hits the rifling in my rifle and have to measure and go much shorter to clear the rifling. Then I have tried other brand bullets that give load data for COAL for their bullets and I can extend a lot further before contact to the lands.

Had one rifle once. Basic Ruger American 30/06 that all factory bullets hit into the lands. Shot fine. But didn't trust it. And reloads pulling back off the lands always had bullets seated extreamely deep and shot horrible no matter what I did. Very short chamber. I did not trust that gun for anything. Ended up selling for someone to do a project with.

I would agree to look up bullet manufacture load data for COAL for their specific bullets. It can be different.

[Scruffy]

Hornady has some excellent podcasts on the subject.

[hunter399]

A lot of variables on the subject. I have gun that one bullet will give a COAL and it hits the rifling in my rifle and have to measure and go much shorter to clear the rifling. Then I have tried other brand bullets that give load data for COAL for their bullets and I can extend a lot further before contact to the lands.

Had one rifle once. Basic Ruger American 30/06 that all factory bullets hit into the lands. Shot fine. But didn't trust it. And reloads pulling back off the lands always had bullets seated extreamely deep and shot horrible no matter what I did. Very short chamber. I did not trust that gun for anything. Ended up selling for someone to do a project with.

I would agree to look up bullet manufacture load data for COAL for their specific bullets. It can be different.

Thanks that's great advice.
Definitely be looking at reload data based on bullet from now on.
I've load tons of rounds,and just looked at data for grain weight of bullet.
Never had this problem till recently.

I just looked at speer reloading data.
I was over on COAL. 3.270 is whats in there manual.
Also they say max charge is 57.5

My bad,not a great reloader.
I'll use those for sighting in,then brass will be fired in my chamber and all that.

Also speer has data online

https://www.speer.com/reloading/rifle-data.html

[chukardogs]

The bullet manufacturer's reloading data should always be the first source. COAL is decided by a bullets ogive and the abilty to work in the majority of guns manufactured in that caliber. If you're reloading for accuracy, the bullet manufacturer's reloading data is the place to start but the final product should be decided by the specific gun being loaded for with the data being used as a guide and pressure limitations. For accuracy, start with a dummy round that's probably .150 longer than COAL, use a large sharpie to blacken the entire bullet surface, try to close action. Don't force it if the action isn't within a few thousands of closing. Based on the information gained by the earlier step, adjust the COAL and try again. Keep this up until you know the exact length that has "that" bullet touching the rifling lands with the action closed and then start your reloading from there. You'll find each gun, bullet and powder charge have a specific distance off the lands that will give you your best accuracy. For example, after numerous trips to the range, my 25-06 proved to favor .040 off the lands with 120 gr. Speer Grand Slams but the Barnes 100 gr. TSX favored .020 off the lands. Good luck

[Buckjunkie]

I would pick up a seating depth gauge like this:

https://www.hornady.com/modified-cases#!/

You will also need a “modified case” for every round you load for.

While a lot of guys like to kiss the rifling, most hunting rounds should be at least .010 off the lands and grooves. This tool makes it easy.

Rule of thumb when I work up loads is to start .020 off the lands and grooves with cup and core bullets and .070 off with monolithic.

Work up loads at these seating depths and then once you find a recipe, your final step should be to try seating closer and further by .010 to see if the groups improve.

Keep in mind that reloading is fickle at best. I have a cup and core load that is .125 off the lands and it shoots very well. O would have never found this load, but it happens to be the seating depth of a Nosler Factory load with the same bullet. Go figure, those guys do a lot of testing.

[hunter399]

I would pick up a seating depth gauge like this:

https://www.hornady.com/modified-cases#!/

You will also need a “modified case” for every round you load for.

While a lot of guys like to kiss the rifling, most hunting rounds should be at least .010 off the lands and grooves. This tool makes it easy.

Rule of thumb when I work up loads is to start .020 off the lands and grooves with cup and core bullets and .070 off with monolithic.

Work up loads at these seating depths and then once you find a recipe, your final step should be to try seating closer and further by .010 to see if the groups improve.

Keep in mind that reloading is fickle at best. I have a cup and core load that is .125 off the lands and it shoots very well. O would have never found this load, but it happens to be the seating depth of a Nosler Factory load with the same bullet. Go figure, those guys do a lot of testing.

I do need one of those tools for sure.
I figured out that 3.285 is in the rifling with a hot cor.
Definitely not the right way to figure it out.

[Threewolves]

I would pick up a seating depth gauge like this:

https://www.hornady.com/modified-cases#!/

You will also need a “modified case” for every round you load for.

While a lot of guys like to kiss the rifling, most hunting rounds should be at least .010 off the lands and grooves. This tool makes it easy.

Rule of thumb when I work up loads is to start .020 off the lands and grooves with cup and core bullets and .070 off with monolithic

Work up loads at these seating depths and then once you find a recipe, your final step should be to try seating closer and further by .010 to see if the groups improve.

Keep in mind that reloading is fickle at best. I have a cup and core load that is .125 off the lands and it shoots very well. O would have never found this load, but it happens to be the seating depth of a Nosler Factory load with the same bullet. Go figure, those guys do a lot of testing.

2nd this. The best way to know your bullet seating depth by measuring ogive not to the tip of the bullet. 

[addicted]

When you had the hard closure are you sure it was jamming bullet on lands or could it have been shoulder?

Like the other guys said get a COAL gauge or use the jamming method to find what your chamber max COAL is then shave 10, 20, 30, 40, or 50 thousandths off that.

Also measuring COAL BASSE TO TIP can be inconsistent(lead or plastic tip deformation) so try measuring BASE TO OGIVE with a collator.  I find that different bullets can give you a different BASE to OGIVE measurements in the same gun I think because the angle of the ogive rests differently on the cut angle of the lands or settles further on a flatter angle because it doesn't bite the bullet as easily. I compared 150SST SAV to 168ELDM the other day and I think I had a very consistent 20 thou difference. 

What this means for you is use the same bullet to measure every time, preferably the one you are shooting.

[hunter399]

When you had the hard closure are you sure it was jamming bullet on lands or could it have been shoulder?

Like the other guys said get a COAL gauge or use the jamming method to find what your chamber max COAL is then shave 10, 20, 30, 40, or 50 thousandths off that.

Also measuring COAL BASSE TO TIP can be inconsistent(lead or plastic tip deformation) so try measuring BASE TO OGIVE with a collator.  I find that different bullets can give you a different BASE to OGIVE measurements in the same gun I think because the angle of the ogive rests differently on the cut angle of the lands or settles further on a flatter angle because it doesn't bite the bullet as easily. I compared 150SST SAV to 168ELDM the other day and I think I had a very consistent 20 thou difference. 

What this means for you is use the same bullet to measure every time, preferably the one you are shooting.

Without the tools and all.
I just took the rifle to the reloading desk.
Kept bumping the die down a hair till the round would load without bolt resistance. Then bumped it down a hair more.
Which I believe I ended up very close to my previous coal.

[Rat44]

I would be very careful of rounds you have to force.
Being jammed into the lands too much could raise pressures to a dangerous level.
I have always set all my loads to touch the lands and back off .010".
So far it has worked well for me.
I have one rifle that has a very long chamber and loads for it will not even fit in some rifle magazine wells.
And factory loads do not shot well in it as the bullet has to make a very long jump before it contacts the rifling.