Better pay attention to this, they always tell you what their next move will be

[Platensek-po]

What a crock of BS, and shame on those of you falling for it!

 Bullets either pass all the way through, or are generally found by the hunters against the hide. “If” there are any “fragments” left, I seriously the doubt the birds are chewing them up and swallowing them.

That’s what I thought as well. About 80% of the time I find my bullet somewhere under the skin or it blew out the other side. I remember reading an article about 15 years-ish ago about lead being a health concern for hunters and it contaminating big game meat.

It’s explained pretty well here.
https://www.boone-crockett.org/lead-hunting-ammunition

[JimmyHoffa]

For the case of the California condor, the deaths and lead levels in birds didn't really change pre/post ban from what I remember. Hunters had a 95% or better compliance rate. Should have been a corresponding decline in sick birds. The claim then, was that the birds were getting the lead from gut piles in Nevada where there wasn't a ban.
I've also read where all the birds have been taking "dust baths" in dried ponds. The dust cleans off parasites and then the birds preen their feathers and ingest the dust. The condor zone has tons of old ponds at mine sites/tailing pools. These sites have high levels of lead, zinc, cadmium, and mercury(for the gold mines). The birds found dead of lead poisoning had elevated levels of those other heavy metals too.
I don't think those other metals are being left in gut piles from hunters.
I'm not saying lead is good for them or any creature. I'm just wondering how much of all this is really from old mining operations and the companies don't want to pay for remediation so hunters are the scapegoats.

[Bob33]

For the case of the California condor, the deaths and lead levels in birds didn't really change pre/post ban from what I remember. Hunters had a 95% or better compliance rate. Should have been a corresponding decline in sick birds. The claim then, was that the birds were getting the lead from gut piles in Nevada where there wasn't a ban.
I've also read where all the birds have been taking "dust baths" in dried ponds. The dust cleans off parasites and then the birds preen their feathers and ingest the dust. The condor zone has tons of old ponds at mine sites/tailing pools. These sites have high levels of lead, zinc, cadmium, and mercury(for the gold mines). The birds found dead of lead poisoning had elevated levels of those other heavy metals too.
I don't think those other metals are being left in gut piles from hunters.
I'm not saying lead is good for them or any creature. I'm just wondering how much of all this is really from old mining operations and the companies don't want to pay for remediation so hunters are the scapegoats.

From the Boone & Crockett article linked earlier:

Although some are still skeptical that bullets are the source of lead in condors, it is compelling that condor blood lead levels spike during and following big-game hunting seasons in their range. Also, ammunition residues (intact bullets, fragments or lead shot) were found in 27 of 40 cases of lead-caused condor deaths in Arizona and Utah. Similar elevated blood levels have been documented in golden eagles, ravens and crows around hunting seasons, though crows don’t seem to be affected by elevated lead levels like other species.

[lewy]

Can’t speak on the condors but I can say there are no shortage of eagles around matter of fact it seems like they are absolutely everywhere

[HUNTIN4SIX]

Can’t speak on the condors but I can say there are no shortage of eagles around matter of fact it seems like they are absolutely everywhere

   They are a absolute pain in the arse for us during calving season.  I have seen 10-15 at a time dive bombing our cows and calves.  Damn things are worse than wolves....
In Alaska they are thick like seaguls.  Doesn't hurt my feelings to keep the bald eagle population in check.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

I have my doubts about deer and elk gut piles or other cervids. How many people aim for the guts. And if they accidently hit them in the guts, gut shots are usually pass throughs.  I would think most lead from carcasses would be predators where whole carcasses get left in the woods. Or lead shot from small game or upland birds.

[Jake Dogfish]

There are plenty of eagles.
I’m all for getting lead out of the environment.

[huntnphool]

  How about applying some critical thinking regarding this section!

 “ Wildlife Exposure

We know that fragments of lead bullets are left in gut piles and scraps and are then inadvertently eaten by scavenging wildlife. This is not a concern for mammals because it passes through them rapidly, but because birds have a different type of digestive tract, they absorb much more of the lead they consume. Work on grizzly bears has shown elevated lead blood levels, but no adverse effects have been detected. Research leaves no doubt, however, that lead fragments consumed by raptors can be lethal.

The California condor has been front and center in this conversation because of the condor’s endangered status and the fact they exist in relatively low numbers. Every death is a significant drain on the population. In the California Condor Recovery Program, each bird is numbered and monitored extensively. They are trapped, and their blood levels are monitored throughout the year. Besides blood level monitoring, they also undergo isotope analysis to try to identify the source of the lead. Lead that is found in their blood is analyzed and the signature it returns is recycled lead. This means they are not picking it up from natural sources. Indeed, there are other forms of recycled lead that have been identified as a potential source (in one case a lead paint source was identified).

Although some are still skeptical that bullets are the source of lead in condors, it is compelling that condor blood lead levels spike during and following big-game hunting seasons in their range. Also, ammunition residues (intact bullets, fragments or lead shot) were found in 27 of 40 cases of lead-caused condor deaths in Arizona and Utah. Similar elevated blood levels have been documented in golden eagles, ravens and crows around hunting seasons, though crows don’t seem to be affected by elevated lead levels like other species. The smoking gun for me was the golden eagle that was reported by Yellowstone officials in April of 2019 that died of acute lead poisoning which through analysis they found most likely consumed lead fragments in gut piles and carcasses left afield.”

[huntnphool]

 I have a bird, Amazon Parrot, 42 years old, and if I folded a lead pellet into a piece of chicken that I gave him, he would feel it and discard it…not eat it!

 Are you rubes falling for this BS telling me my 42 year old parrot is more intelligent than a bald eagle, condor, golden eagle…etc?

[slavenoid]

I'm proud to say I know nothing about pet parrots. I do know how Ravens act with kill sites and they ain't slowing down to examine meat for lead contamination.

[Skyvalhunter]

More likely to get the lead from the salmon they eat than a gut pile.

[Platensek-po]

I have my doubts about deer and elk gut piles or other cervids. How many people aim for the guts. And if they accidently hit them in the guts, gut shots are usually pass throughs.  I would think most lead from carcasses would be predators where whole carcasses get left in the woods. Or lead shot from small game or upland birds.

They have done mortality studies and find that there can be lead fragments up to 18in away from the wound channel.

[Platensek-po]

More likely to get the lead from the salmon they eat than a gut pile.

Really? Bald eagles in Wyoming and Montana are getting lead poisoning from salmon? Please explain.

[huntnphool]

More likely to get the lead from the salmon they eat than a gut pile.

Really? Bald eagles in Wyoming and Montana are getting lead poisoning from salmon? Please explain.

 Post up the study with results that show Wyoming and Montana eagles are being poisoned by lead!

[Platensek-po]

More likely to get the lead from the salmon they eat than a gut pile.

Really? Bald eagles in Wyoming and Montana are getting lead poisoning from salmon? Please explain.

 Post up the study with results that show Wyoming and Montana eagles are being poisoned by lead!

Already did in this thread…literally the first golden eagle with a tracker on it in montana died of lead poisoning from scavenging gut piles.
https://www.nps.gov/yell/learn/news/19010.htm