Free: Contests & Raffles.
Quote from: blackveltbowhunter on January 04, 2025, 08:49:24 PM I don't want to derail record bull thread anymore than it is, so I thought I would pose the question here. I think its readily apparent anytime a big bull is posted the "jealousy" label gets slapped up more times than Fauci saying "stop the spread" during a covid press conference. My question is, is it it really that simple? Is any comment that questions the validity, or is not a glowing affirmation of the hunters prowess and skill driven solely by this single emotion. Personally, I think jealousy by and large has very little to do with it. Obviously jealousy exists I am not denying that. However, hunting when viewed as a "sport" by a group is unique and may be the only sport that has no scale upon which to measure the individuals accomplishments. The individual by the nature of taking a life, should be satisfied with their results. But once shared they open themselves up to criticism upon which there are no written rules ( after the legal ones ) to compare the level of "good". In sports like basketball, football, golf etc..., there are rigidly defined parameters that govern all players in a specific era and level. Determining the level of skill needed to achieve or excel is easy. In other words, you cannot pay enough to get someone to lower the basket so you can win a dunking contest against Jordan. Contest sports ( which i categorize hunting in ) like boxing or UFC get a little more sideways because competition can to some extent be chosen. Still, its pretty transparent and relatively easy to spot when a contender is ducking another or weighing the odds in their favor. By and large I think most hunters that raise questions are not doing so because they are jealous, but because they want a reference for comparisons. Specifically comparisons to their own styles or self imposed rules. Big bulls and bucks area always cool. But being the highest score TO ME has little to do with that animals ability to survive, to grow, or most pertinent to this topic escape and evade hunters. The truth cold and hard as it is, is this. No free range animal living on hay bales in back yards, with limited to no hunting pressure, in the proximity of humans, possibly driven off home field advantage due to snow, is comparable when being hunted to an animal who is not blessed with those gifts. I think some folks believe that because they utilize their money or other resources to get them access to those types of animals who are not as equipped to deal with hunter pressure, they will be categorized differently than others. And they will. That doesn't make those who are judging jealous, it just makes a more equitable comparison. It reminds me of the scene in rocky 3 when Mick tell Rocky that he would get killed in a fight against Clubber, and his title defenses were against handpicked fighters. I don't get why it bothers anyone at all on either side. If it does, do something about it instead of throwing labels. This is a strange question especially coming from you. I remember a comment to the effect of "it was just a 5 point, nothing special". To me there was a large spectrum of emotions coming from a highly skilled hunter(you). I believe emotions including jealousy are not all bad, at times you can be jealous and appreciate things at the same time and both are okay. Hunting is just so much more and does so much more than just classifying it as a competitive sport as stated yet actions represent other emotions invoked including jealousy in other settings.
I don't want to derail record bull thread anymore than it is, so I thought I would pose the question here. I think its readily apparent anytime a big bull is posted the "jealousy" label gets slapped up more times than Fauci saying "stop the spread" during a covid press conference. My question is, is it it really that simple? Is any comment that questions the validity, or is not a glowing affirmation of the hunters prowess and skill driven solely by this single emotion. Personally, I think jealousy by and large has very little to do with it. Obviously jealousy exists I am not denying that. However, hunting when viewed as a "sport" by a group is unique and may be the only sport that has no scale upon which to measure the individuals accomplishments. The individual by the nature of taking a life, should be satisfied with their results. But once shared they open themselves up to criticism upon which there are no written rules ( after the legal ones ) to compare the level of "good". In sports like basketball, football, golf etc..., there are rigidly defined parameters that govern all players in a specific era and level. Determining the level of skill needed to achieve or excel is easy. In other words, you cannot pay enough to get someone to lower the basket so you can win a dunking contest against Jordan. Contest sports ( which i categorize hunting in ) like boxing or UFC get a little more sideways because competition can to some extent be chosen. Still, its pretty transparent and relatively easy to spot when a contender is ducking another or weighing the odds in their favor. By and large I think most hunters that raise questions are not doing so because they are jealous, but because they want a reference for comparisons. Specifically comparisons to their own styles or self imposed rules. Big bulls and bucks area always cool. But being the highest score TO ME has little to do with that animals ability to survive, to grow, or most pertinent to this topic escape and evade hunters. The truth cold and hard as it is, is this. No free range animal living on hay bales in back yards, with limited to no hunting pressure, in the proximity of humans, possibly driven off home field advantage due to snow, is comparable when being hunted to an animal who is not blessed with those gifts. I think some folks believe that because they utilize their money or other resources to get them access to those types of animals who are not as equipped to deal with hunter pressure, they will be categorized differently than others. And they will. That doesn't make those who are judging jealous, it just makes a more equitable comparison. It reminds me of the scene in rocky 3 when Mick tell Rocky that he would get killed in a fight against Clubber, and his title defenses were against handpicked fighters. I don't get why it bothers anyone at all on either side. If it does, do something about it instead of throwing labels.
curious how much does one put in for the raffle tags? What are the odds of drawing one of the raffle tags. If people are paying more than 10k+ why not give these guys tags, More u spend maybe your season longer? Just seems like the people putting 20 bucks in would never draw a raffle tag. I could be wrong but Im curious what people think on this topic?
Quote from: Tbar on January 05, 2025, 01:44:16 PMQuote from: blackveltbowhunter on January 04, 2025, 08:49:24 PM I don't want to derail record bull thread anymore than it is, so I thought I would pose the question here. I think its readily apparent anytime a big bull is posted the "jealousy" label gets slapped up more times than Fauci saying "stop the spread" during a covid press conference. My question is, is it it really that simple? Is any comment that questions the validity, or is not a glowing affirmation of the hunters prowess and skill driven solely by this single emotion. Personally, I think jealousy by and large has very little to do with it. Obviously jealousy exists I am not denying that. However, hunting when viewed as a "sport" by a group is unique and may be the only sport that has no scale upon which to measure the individuals accomplishments. The individual by the nature of taking a life, should be satisfied with their results. But once shared they open themselves up to criticism upon which there are no written rules ( after the legal ones ) to compare the level of "good". In sports like basketball, football, golf etc..., there are rigidly defined parameters that govern all players in a specific era and level. Determining the level of skill needed to achieve or excel is easy. In other words, you cannot pay enough to get someone to lower the basket so you can win a dunking contest against Jordan. Contest sports ( which i categorize hunting in ) like boxing or UFC get a little more sideways because competition can to some extent be chosen. Still, its pretty transparent and relatively easy to spot when a contender is ducking another or weighing the odds in their favor. By and large I think most hunters that raise questions are not doing so because they are jealous, but because they want a reference for comparisons. Specifically comparisons to their own styles or self imposed rules. Big bulls and bucks area always cool. But being the highest score TO ME has little to do with that animals ability to survive, to grow, or most pertinent to this topic escape and evade hunters. The truth cold and hard as it is, is this. No free range animal living on hay bales in back yards, with limited to no hunting pressure, in the proximity of humans, possibly driven off home field advantage due to snow, is comparable when being hunted to an animal who is not blessed with those gifts. I think some folks believe that because they utilize their money or other resources to get them access to those types of animals who are not as equipped to deal with hunter pressure, they will be categorized differently than others. And they will. That doesn't make those who are judging jealous, it just makes a more equitable comparison. It reminds me of the scene in rocky 3 when Mick tell Rocky that he would get killed in a fight against Clubber, and his title defenses were against handpicked fighters. I don't get why it bothers anyone at all on either side. If it does, do something about it instead of throwing labels. This is a strange question especially coming from you. I remember a comment to the effect of "it was just a 5 point, nothing special". To me there was a large spectrum of emotions coming from a highly skilled hunter(you). I believe emotions including jealousy are not all bad, at times you can be jealous and appreciate things at the same time and both are okay. Hunting is just so much more and does so much more than just classifying it as a competitive sport as stated yet actions represent other emotions invoked including jealousy in other settings. I 100 percent agree. Hence the reason for the question. I personally don't think that jealousy is the only reason. My opinion is there are many emotions, opinions, motivations and different takes, from those questioning these kills as well as those defending them. If hunters are going to unite silencing, or labeling differing views because it doesn't align with yours is not the way to do it IMO. Hence, why I started this thread, the record bull thread is a success thread. It seems to have gone away from simple congrats to the hunter ( I get the hunter didn't initiate it ). To the comment specifically. That comment I made to you was wrong. It was never meant to be directed at or toward you or any other hunters if it came across that way I apologize. If was also disparaging to the bull, and for that I do apologize. Hunting experiences should allow for growth and change, and that was one of my biggest. I will never, ever, ever again disparage a life I or anyone takes as not worthy of respect. That hunt knocked me down hard. It brought a ton of "negative" emotions initially, but now I wouldnt trade them for a 360 bull ..... ok thats a lie but you get the gist. It forced growth and allowed me live the words " if you kill it, you honor it". In a way I may never have known otherwise. Im curious, What makes me a highly skilled hunter in your opinion? I do not consider myself a highly skilled hunter. I have no body of work with giant critters gracing my walls. Have never killed an animal large enough to enter into the B and C record book, and am handicapped with a debilitating archery preference. In addition I have a history of relatively low trigger control, (improving) and while I am dedicated, diligent and disciplined. The animals especially the big ones make me look a fool more often than I care to admit. My comment about competitive sports was meant to highlight this very issue. It's not that I actually look at hunting as a competitive sport. But in a world of social media where comparisons WILL be drawn amongst large numbers of folks, what are the rules for those comparisons? If being legal is the standard, then we need look no further than the big money tags or the tribal hunt regulations to see where that leads us.
Quote from: howlow on January 06, 2025, 05:17:33 PMcurious how much does one put in for the raffle tags? What are the odds of drawing one of the raffle tags. If people are paying more than 10k+ why not give these guys tags, More u spend maybe your season longer? Just seems like the people putting 20 bucks in would never draw a raffle tag. I could be wrong but Im curious what people think on this topic?Which he didn’t. All it takes is one!Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I think it's $6 per entry and I did the simple math for the pending WR bull. If Brooks bought every single ticket this year it was like 35k
Funny thing is the results from these auction/governor/raffle tags don’t really impress me much, and I don’t think they impress true hardcore hunters much either. Don’t get me wrong, the animals themselves are pretty amazing. People know that these are pay to play tags, hunting animals with next to zero pressure or often times being babysat by guide services. I’d bet if you asked 10 dedicated elk hunters, the guys that are successful every year, they probably couldn’t tell you the name of a single one of these guys that hold the record books with these tags. They just don’t really care, I imagine the only people sweating these things are the guys battling it out to get a tag. Personally, I think the guys that pay for this tags are absolute morons. If I won the mega millions tomorrow you wouldn’t catch me spending it on this. You might find me paying my best buddies bills and mortgages for a month, buying everyone new gear, and going on an epic diy float hunt into a wilderness area with otc tags though.
