Mechanical Broadheads

[Ray]

Ray - Did you mean that they ARE barbed and less likely to work their way out?

I am asking that, yes. Among other things.

[KillBilly]

Most importantly - are they not barbed and less likely to work their way out of an animal that is hit in a non-lethal engagement? Isn't that one of the main reasons for the law?

Also - How would the proposed language be to only include these mechanical expanding broadheads if they were able to work their way out of animals and yet still outlaw other barbed broadheads? That seems like the segway to justifying them to me.

Ray, any broadhead that doesn't begin at the widest point and taper back toward the fletching are considered Barbed. They must have that back taper so it comes out of the animal unimpeded. And most of the mechanicals are considered barbed

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

The thing that concerns me most is that if you are that concerned with using mechanical broadheads, you probably don't practise that much with broadheads and most likely shoot field tips at targets.
This reasoning leads me to think that you are concerned with grouping at longer yards because at closer yardage, if you are a halfway decent shot you are wrecking your arrows.
  I am against shooting at a game animals at longer yardage because no matter how fast your bow shoots, it will never beat 1129fps (the speed of sound) and (I know this will stir the pot .) even though some "bowhunters" can shoot out to 80+ yards and have collected game at that distance (I am guilty of it myself when I used a compound) It is not a responsible action and has the potential of wounding game, something we should be trying to avoid as ethical sportsmen. When an animal hears the bow we have no way of making sure that they will hold still (unlike a target) and most likely something is going to happen. I know some of you have harvested game at incredible distances with a bow, but is that what hunting with archery equipment is about? Long range shooting belongs on the range, not in the woods. If you cannot stalk within an acceptable and ethical distance to the game you seek, or take shots at animals way up on a hillside from the road, Mechanical broadheads might make a difference, but if you can, then the only thing that matters is that they are SHARP and you put them in the right spot.

[timmyg]

I respect most peoples opinions, especially on a forum where they are to be expressed.  I actually agree with Ray on most of his posts.  I don't understand STICK's last post.  I don't know how he could have any idea about my practice habits unless he spent some time with me shooting. (I am thinking he might be referencing me....)

So he isn't so "concerned", I shoot a lot of arrows in preparation for the seasons.  I practice mostly with broadheads this time of year STICK.  I many times wreck arrows whether with field tips or broadheads, but it doesn't deter me from my practice.  I have a pretty nice set up for shooting at my place with 3 D deer and turkey if you are ever in the Whatcom County area and would like to shoot.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

 I was not referring to anybody in particular, I was mostly pointing out my concerns. I do not know how anyone else does their practicing, I was making a generalisation. Practice is essential to our sport. And I applaud that you do. I was commenting on the comparison of the flight characteristic of field points to mechanical. I know modern compounds can keep all their arrows inside a pretty tight circle at reasonable distances, and unless the insert is crooked the broadhead should fly straight enough to keep them close, it is only at longer distances that erratic flight, or planing becomes apparent. If you shoot broadheads at a target at "realistic" hunting distance, you usually only shoot one arrow at target at a time because any decent shooter would ruin his first arrow with a consecutive arrow. If you have 3D's to practise on and you use broadheads on them they get pretty ripped up. I have a fox,coyote,turkey,boar,deer and standing bear, along with 2 squirrels, a rabbit, a raccoon, and a beaver in my back yard (5 acres) and I use field tips on them and of course I wreck arrows. I shoot at a broadhead target with my hunting arrows and practise on my 3D's with my field tips.
Sorry I got off topic.
All chest thumping aside, I was not talking about anyone in particular I was merely stating that I was concerned about comparing flight characteristics with field points because it leads me to the conclusion that they want a broadhead to reach longer distances, because all manufactured broadheads today are designed to fly straight, it is only when "airing" one out there that you would notice a difference. My concern is not about being able to hit a target, but a game animal. When you give it hair and a heartbeat everything changes. I practice stupid and ridiculous shots, but with broadheads I keep it under 40 (I use a recurve) In a hunting situation I only let the arrow fly if it feels right, some times I am within 10 yards and don't shoot, but I never take a shot that I think might result in wounding game. As distance to target increases, so does margin for error. Throw in the likelihood that the animal will jump,flinch, walk, or move in some way and you have the recipe for disaster.
AGAIN,  I was not talking about anyone in particular! I was just stating my concerns and hope I did not offend anyone.
I know a lot of you will harvest animals with archery equipment out beyond 60 yards this year and I can only say, Wow, nice shot! however I will not encourage you to take that shot.
We are sportsmen and need to maintain our image and respect for the game we pursue,

[timmyg]

Thanks for the clarification STIC.  I have a replaceable kill zone on my deer, so I don't worry about ripping it up.  Sounds like you have a great place to shoot, but my offer still stands if you are up my way.  Since I am the only one posting "pro" mechanical broadheads lately, it felt a little pointed if you will.  I shoot a lot of arrows not only because it is essential, but because I enjoy shooting.  Happy shooting all.  September is right around the corner, so keep them flying.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

Glad we could get that straightened out.
I have replaceable zones also, but I don't have the money to keep replacing them, I shoot everyday and just replacing arrows is enough.
 I know that everyone has an opinion and that is just mine, I have been bowhunting since 1987 and have formed a lot of them, several of them are unpopular.

[Hoytstaffshooter83]

my    first off, you dont need to practice with the acutal mechanical heads, they fly exactly like your fieldpoints. so dial in your bow all year with field points, then put on whatever head you choose and enjoy your hunt. as far as the blades not coming out? please explaiin to me why that would be a issue if your SHOT PLACEMENT is correct? last time I checked a double lung shot behind the shoulder does the job damn fast regardless of whether the arrow passed through or not, maybe we should all put more effort into becoming more proficient with a bow? if we were the broadhead not pulling out argument would not matter. As far as lumenoks go, I just dont get how anyone can be against these, they are a great tool, why would your arrow being bright make anyone more apt to shoot in serious low light conditions, if you cant see the animal well with your pins, what difference does it make that your nock lights up?  after the shot however they would be awesome, my hunting arrows are over 30 bucks a arrow and sometimes they have a way of vanishing after a shot.. I would love to be able to find my arrow everytime after a hit, we all know that is the first sign of what to do next by what sign we have on the arrow, also leading to a better recovery. As far as distance, everyone has this all backwards, the FARTHER away you are from game, the LESS likely they are to hear your bow, go grab any new quiet bow, stand 20 yrds away and see how loud it is, then go to 60..... good luck even hearing it go off..... any shot within a persons effective range is ethical....... if the shot is right....... being able to shoot to 60+ yrds does not mean you are losing your ability to hunt and stalk, people make a huge deal about these distances, those 99% of the time are people that can not shoot consistent enough to hunt at those distances, the ones that can dont toss up any oposistion. If you see a bedded buck at 500 yrds and use the wind and cover to get within 60 and he stands up in the open and you make a great shot, how can one say that was not hunting or stalking? being proficient out to greater distances give you a advantage, but it does not or it should not make you any lesser of a hunter.

[Ray]

If we need lumenocks and expandable broadheads why not crossbows and why not scopes on the bows? Where does it end? It ends where it makes sense. It does not make sense to overgadget bows when we have a good selection of items in our toolbox to get the job done right. We are better than these gimmicks and have already proven that. If you need more advanced and precise killing tools consider trying the rifle. As hunters - what we do use and how we use it does reflect on our image. I think we are better than just plainly accepting any new gadget as a means to get the job done. We should be aware that how we take the game and with what is under scrutiny internally and externally.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

As far as distance, everyone has this all backwards, the FARTHER away you are from game, the LESS likely they are to hear your bow, go grab any new quiet bow, stand 20 yrds away and see how loud it is, then go to 60..... good luck even hearing it go off..... any shot within a persons effective range is ethical

I knew I would piss somebody off, But Thank you for substantiating my statement,
 we have diferent opinions and you are certanly entitled to yours. Good luck and great shot!
I know you can outshoot me at any range, but I can close the distance, or I dont take the shot. Ihat is why I use the equipment I choose. I am not about my great shooting ability, I am about my love of the hunt and the experience of being in the outdoors. I have experiences every year when I second guess myself and wonder if I would have taken the shot with my old compound, then I realise the choice was to increase my enjoyment of the accomplishment, not the accomplishment itself. I would feel more satisfaction sneaking into my confort range and spooking the animal than I would taking the long shot and hoping to hit it.
I dont care how quiet you say your bow is ,they hear it....Just because you have made the shot in the past does not mean you always will. One wounded animal not recovered due to pride is one too many.
 I dont want to argue with you, you are entitled to your opinion, as I am mine. You take whatever shots you feel you must and I hope they all fly true.

[adam.WI]

As I stated before I don't like mechanical because I've had a bad experience with them, but with that said I don't understand the argument taking place, or at least the relevance. To me mechanical broadheads are far less technically advanced than the limbs and risers producing speeds of 350 fps plus, or rangefinders telling us not only straight line distance, but horizontal distance as well. These are things I don't have any issues with because they improve the efficiency, and effectiveness of the bow hunter. The mechanical broadheads in my opinion have there flaws which have been discussed, and these are the reasons they are illegal.
The advanced technology of a blade pivoting on a hinge pin has little to do with it in my opinion.

[Ray]

Well if archery was so advanced that the group of archers took as many animals as the rifle hunters in a similar amount of field time your opinion might change. The success rate and length of time it takes to achieve success in the field with this tag and the inherent restrictions is somewhat related to how far we allow archery technology to creep into the activity.

The most important things which makes these gadgets illegal is because they are unethical or not worth regulating in favor of. Not to mention that many archers do not approve of them.

In short - I do not believe it is worth regulating in favor of mechanical broadheads because I believe they are inferior to what is permitted by law today and will result in more wounded game.

[adam.WI]

In short - I do not believe it is worth regulating in favor of mechanical broadheads because I believe they are inferior to what is permitted by law today and will result in more wounded game.

Agreed

[timmyg]

I agree with Hoyt on all aspects of his post.  And it is probably another case of the WDFW having it absolutely right once again.  I am sure they think the product is inferior and will end up with more wounded game. 

[tlbradford]

my    first off, you dont need to practice with the acutal mechanical heads, they fly exactly like your fieldpoints. so dial in your bow all year with field points, then put on whatever head you choose and enjoy your hunt. as far as the blades not coming out? please explaiin to me why that would be a issue if your SHOT PLACEMENT is correct? last time I checked a double lung shot behind the shoulder does the job damn fast regardless of whether the arrow passed through or not

You answered your own question...The broadhead needs to come out on the less than perfect shots, not the perfect shots.  I agree with you on the lumenoks.  I do everything I can to make my arrows brighter.