Wow this is scary.

[Gutpile]

In my searches for ML info I found this, Geez what an eye opener. For me, CVA is off the table.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/dangerous_muzzleloaders.htm

In my opinion, far too many people have had their lives destroyed by reportedly using cheap imported muzzleloaders as directed by manufacturer's printed instructions. There are no muzzleloading standards, and there is no governing body on the American muzzleloading scene to effect any semblance of quality control or reasonable safety testing.

According to one attorney, his client is an ex-marine who has been trained for about 13 years on how to clean, load, and fire a muzzle loading rifle. The accident occurred 3 days after he received the rifle as a gift from his daughter. It was a new Traditions .50 caliber inline. The attorney believes he was using the gun as directed by the manufacturer on the date of the accident. The man has lost his right hand as a result of the explosion.

Another attorney's report details how a man purchased a new CVA .50 caliber inline, a package of .50 caliber / 50 grain Hodgdon brand Triple Seven propellant pellets, a package of Winchester brand W209 Primers and a CVA brand .50 caliber Complete Muzzleloading Accessory Outfit at a chain store, according to the receipt. A short while later, one primer was fired per the instructions and then, to sight in the muzzleloader, loaded 3 of the 50 grain pellets, a .50 caliber "PowerBelt" 295 grain hollow point bullet with plastic "sabot" snap-on base and a W209 primer.

He fired the muzzleloader and the barrel exploded. His wife was present at the scene of the accident. She transported him to the hospital ER. This man was in the emergency room within about two hours of his new purchase. Two surgeries have already been performed in an attempt to repair the damage to his hand as a result of the explosion. More are indicated.

In another incident, a different man, with approximately 20-25 years of experience hunting with muzzleloaders / black powder guns, was target shooting on a Saturday with a friend, using his CVA inline. The hospital reports that after being stabilized x-rays were taken which revealed a "large metallic FB with spring located at the angle of the mandible."

In yet another CVA incident, a man with ten years of muzzleloading under his belt was sighting in a new scope on his CVA inline. His brother and nephew were present. After a catastrophic failure, his injuries reportedly consisted of a torn right nostril from the base of the nostril to just below the right eye socket. It took 40-45 stitches to close this wound. His nose and his right cheek bone were broken.

A concerned consumer recently wrote to Mark Hendricks, Technical Manager, Connecticut Valley Arms (CVA), 5988 Peachtree Corners East Norcross, GA 30071. The letter describes how a design defect nearly caused the death of this man's son-in-law. It reads, in part:

"My opinion as a graduate engineer is that CVA has a critical design defect, which should be corrected immediately, and should require a product recall. In addition to this problem, we discussed the rationale for specifying barrel strength, and I asked you what the strength of CVA muzzleloader barrels was. You would only tell me that the "minimum specification" was 700 kp/cm2. When I asked you what the maximum pressure spec was, you told me that no one knows, and that "ignorance is bliss". In other words, you could not tell me at what load pressure the barrel would burst. Is this the same attitude that I heard your customer service technician express when he said that the problem I reported had never occurred, therefore it was not possible?"

Jim Bruno, VP of Traditions Firearms, e-mailed me a while back, stating in part:

"Randy, Do you think that we would make a firearm that would not support charges that we advertise and market to the public of the United States of America? I know that you are evaluating and comparing muzzleloaders of different companies in the black powder industry and have done a pretty thorough job, but understand that every time you write or speak any negative comments about our industry you provide ammunition for the people who do not believe that the 2nd amendment exists."

Well, Jim, I'll answer you here and now. First of all, you are apparently unaware of what you are selling. You manufacture no muzzleloaders; you merely import them from a company in Spain. You have no known testing facilities of your own. You have been unable to show that your imported frontloaders are tested with the charges you recommend--charges that are not recommended by powder manufacturers.

It is a "red herring" argument to attempt to turn your lack of knowledge about your own product into a 2nd Amendment issue. The 2nd Amendment is not an entitlement for you to foist substandard product, built to unknown or non-existent standards, on the American consumer.

Terry L. Eby, BPI National Sales Manager / Retail, e-mails in part:

"Randy: I don't consider my language careless and I absolutely stand by my opinion that your position has no basis in fact--but much in conjecture and assumption. If your implication that we would knowingly put our customers at risk is not defamatory, I don't know what is."

Unfortuantely, Terry, the "basis in fact" will be presented to you in court, as your injured consumers have no other recourse. Your company, "BPI," is Spanish owned and operated and has no proper American testing facilities. Do you have any at all? The brands you peddle, CVA, Beartooth, and Winchester Muzzleloading still come from the very same factory that the sorely defective "CVA Apollo" came from, with the same steel, don't they?

This is the CVA Apollo gun that had so many personal injury claims filed against it that the "old CVA" was forced into receivership, is that not true? I have seen nothing to indicate that your sub-standard proofs and poor quality control is any better now than it was then.

If you don't believe the printed results from Lyman Ballistic Laboratories showing 25,000 PSI peak pressures in three pellet loads that you recommend in your manuals for use in your guns that bear a 10,000 PSI area House of Eibar definitive proof mark, you are welcome to take it up with them.

Hodgdon Powder Co. recommends that only two 50 grain equivalent Pyrodex or Triple Seven pellets MAXIMUM be used in .50 caliber inlines. You recommend three. By whose authority is this done? On what basis is this done?

The pity of all this is that proven safe, quality muzzleloaders have never been more plentiful, or more affordable. Knight Rifles, NEF / H & R, Thompson / Center Arms, and Austin & Halleck all currently offer exemplary inline muzzleloading rifles today that you won't be betting your life on.

The Savage 10ML-II is the best built frontloader of them all, using the Savage magnum centerfire barrel as a starting point. The affordable Knight Wolverine, proven for twenty years right now, is a shining example of how you can fly first class with a Green Mountain barrel for an economy ticket price.

The girl behind the counter at Wally World may be oblivious to all this, and apparently large retailers such as Bass Pro and Cabela's are as well. I've heard and seen enough of this nonsense to last me several lifetimes; I don't have the stomach for much more human blood.

Cheap, extruded barreled rifles should give anyone pause. Any propane tank for a gas grill is built to a better, uniform standard of testing for the application--at least your propane tank must pass hydro. And, this isn't just my opinion: you won't find muzzleloading legends like Doc White, Henry Ball, or Del Ramsey dissenting.

It is my considered opinion that muzzleloading rifles with soft, extruded barrels proofed to only 10,000 PSI are not fit to be used. I'd much rather dial in a Knight Wolverine than dial 911. Wouldn't anybody?

There is a huge, ever increasing body of evidence that shows CVA branded guns (BPI, CVA Winchester Muzzleloading, New Frontier, etc.) can be quite dangerous with factory recommended loads. Those that have their own personal injury issues can contact several sources for help. Here is one good one: Eaton & Sparks 1717 E. 15th Street Tulsa, OK 74104 Attn. Dean Wise Firearms use, in general, is a very safe sport, with firearms related injuries falling year after year. In fact, A new report from the National Safety Council shows that accidental firearm related fatalities remained at record lows in 2004. Statistics in the council’s “Injury Facts 2005-2006” show a 48 percent decrease over a 10-year period ending in 2004 (the latest year for which data is available). There are rare, very rare exceptions. CVA guns, deficient in design, materials, and quality control in my opinion, give the great sport of muzzleloading a bad name. To subsidize further injuries and fund the decay of the great American firearms manufacturers with your hard earned dollars by buying a dubious CVA gun is unnecessary and unconscionable.

[Wacenturion]

As was stated in the article................

"The pity of all this is that proven safe, quality muzzleloaders have never been more plentiful, or more affordable. Knight Rifles, NEF / H & R, Thompson / Center Arms, and Austin & Halleck all currently offer exemplary inline muzzleloading rifles today that you won't be betting your life on."

[CoryTDF]

That is scary!

[PA BEN]

50 grs of tripple 7 is more powerful then reg. 50 gr powder.

[Whitelightning]

The article you have there has been around for some time. I for one will never and have never bought a IMPORTED muzzle loader. Most of the manufacturing of barrels from Spain have been proofed to a lower standard or a standard that is much looser than we tolerate in the U.S. and other counties. I have read of Many Imported Muzzle loaders exploding with 50gr black powder. Now were the guy's firing them being reasonable? I don't know.

I strongly believe that any American made B/P Rifle has undergone pressure testing far beyond what we could ever (as reasonable people) produce using Black Powder or Black Powder Substitutes.

As the saying goes you get what you pay for, sometimes you receive what you didn't pay for! 

[Kowsrule30]

A CVA blew up in my hands at the Tacoma Sportsman's Range... Sighting in.... An X-ray of my face looks kinda freaky.... Every now and then some metals works it's way out in a nasty zit!!! I got a few bucks for it....  I will only buy CVA bullets.... Nothing else....

[jdb]

what about cabela's brand muzzleloader?I ve been eyeing there sporterized hawkin with the plain walnut stock and no brass hardware anyone have an opinion on these rfiles?

[boneaddict]

Thats what I shoot JDB and so far no accidents.

[fishcrazy]

Just like the old saying. You get what you pay for. With so much stuff being imported this don't surprise me. I can see how it's more important than ever to do our homework when buying.


Kris

[mad-bomber]

if you guys do your research you will find that it was for a short period that the barrels were made wrong.cva did not make the barrels.the problem was fixed and have not had any since.i have owned 4 cva 50 cals and i will put my elkhorn against any other mL out there.groups great.

[carpsniperg2]

if you guys do your research you will find that it was for a short period that the barrels were made wrong.cva did not make the barrels.the problem was fixed and have not had any since.i have owned 4 cva 50 cals and i will put my elkhorn against any other mL out there.groups great.

x2 mad-bomber took the words out of my mouth,
and Austin & Halleck  has been shut down for like 5+ years so it shows how old the articles is.

[PA BEN]

I have a T/C Black Diamond. I've shot 100's of 150 gr loads. No problem.   

[mad-bomber]

when i first started mL i bought a CVA elkhorn 50 cal. and shot 150grains of powder for 2 years aswell as 3 of my buddies.then we realized more is less"kids". and no problems.the  barrel and breech were not the same hardness and that is what caused the issue. ser#1995  or #1996 is the recalled guns.

Blackpowder Products, Inc.

The Muzzleloading Specialists

RE: CONTINUATION OF RECALL

August 2, 2002

To Our Customers:

I want to personally inform you, a valued "member" of the Blackpowder Products, Inc. team, that we are continuing the RECALL of CVA In-Line Muzzleloading Rifles manufactured in 1995 and 1996. The Recall began in 1997 by Connecticut Valley Arms, Inc. This recall was due to the occurrence of very severe accidents when using the rifles. An extremely dangerous condition and a potential for serious injury exists when firing the rifle even if the rifle may have been safely used previously. No other firearm models are affected by this Recall.

As you know, product safety always comes first at Blackpowder Products. The following are the procedures we have in place this year to continue to spread the word on the recall:

We are asking all Retailers to check their inventory for possible CVA rifles subject to the Recall. Any of these rifles will be replaced. There will be no cost to our customers for the shipping of the replacement rifles.

We are again providing Retailers with point-of-purchase signage and mail-in cards for end-users.

We have produced a Recall letter, which will run in the trade magazines and State Hunting Regulations.

We have mailed a special Recall Reminder announcement to a mailing list of our known End-User Customers.

We have mailed a public service announcement to trade publications and free-lance writers for this industry and asked for their assistance in publishing this announcement.

We have a Factory Team to provide accurate information regarding the Recall and procedures for providing product replacement. Our telephone number is 1-770-449-4687 and our e-mail address for the Recall is info@cva.com

We continue the recall information on the CVA web page, catalog and Rifle owner's manual.

The effort, which Connecticut Valley Arms, Inc. began in 1997, has resulted in the return or replacement of over 90% of the rifles. It is our intention to have all the recalled rifles returned.

In May 1999, Blackpowder Products, Inc. purchased the CVA name and other assets. Blackpowder Products, Inc. assumed no liability for any product manufactured or sold prior to January 1, 1998. However, Blackpowder Products, Inc. is continuing the Connecticut Valley Arms, Inc. recall and will cover replacement of the rifle and all related shipping charges.

Thank you for your time and support.

Sincerely,

Dudley McGarity

President

[washelkhntr]

I have a T/C Black Diamond. I've shot 100's of 150 gr loads. No problem.   

I do the same....

[carpsniperg2]

i also have a black diamond xr that is my other gun, but my elk horn out shoots my diamond so that is my number 1 gun right now and has been for 3 years now.