Low Puget Sound blackmouth number blamed on large pink run

[Dmanmastertracker]

 Biologist's around the Sound have found very few Chinook redds and juvenile blackmouth in the salt, which has been an increasing trend on large pink-run years. The exact cause is not yet known, potentially: redd competition and heavy foot traffic could be contributors.

[wildmanoutdoors]

Blackies are not from river spawining Kings. There hatchery reared fish kept longer to make them sterile. They are nothing but feeding machines and will never go spawn in a river as they never sexually mature.

There held for a year and let go in salt. There they roam and stay. They could just be leaving the sound because of low food numbers because of all the Pinks but Pinks and Blackies use really different areas of the sonds as far as depth usaually.

Either way a real Blackmouth (Feeder) is not from or never will go to a river.

[wildmanoutdoors]

Dont get me wrong though, there are native river born "Blackies" too. But the State does not rear those to produce a winter fishery for us.

[Dmanmastertracker]

Dont get me wrong though, there are native river born "Blackies" too. But the State does not rear those to produce a winter fishery for us.

 

Blackies are not from river spawining Kings. There hatchery reared fish kept longer to make them sterile. They are nothing but feeding machines and will never go spawn in a river as they never sexually mature.

There held for a year and let go in salt. There they roam and stay. They could just be leaving the sound because of low food numbers because of all the Pinks but Pinks and Blackies use really different areas of the sonds as far as depth usaually.

Either way a real Blackmouth (Feeder) is not from or never will go to a river.

I've worked in fisheries for several years both in volunteer and paid capacities, can you tell me the source of this info? I know hatchery chinook return to most major river systems, the barrier dam on the cowlitz is a prime example of a huge hatchery run of fish. Blackmouth by definition is any juvenile Chinook, not a sterile Chinook, but perhaps you are referring to one specific area that has a program like that for sterile fish?

 http://www.sschapterpsa.com/ramblings/PS_Blackmouth_history.htm

[wildmanoutdoors]

I am refering to a sterile breed that are put out for just a sportfishery. There are many hatchery runs of Kings for sure. They do return but are also released as smolts instead of yearlings.

Ive only heard the term "Blackmouth" used for the sterile fish. Also heard them called "Feeders".

I guess thats were my confusion is. I have always called them Blackmouth and have always heard them called Blackmouth. And refer this to sterile fish.

So for clarification, are there sterile Chinook that dont return and spawn? And if so, what are they called by definition?

I suppose most of my knowledge comes from the last 15 years of fishing for them and the early years as a Gig Harbor PSA member.

So if they hold them for 15 months do they still go spawn to a river?
And if there raised in a net pen how could they?
I suppose there genitics come from a river at some point? Or do hatchery salmon, like hatchery Steelhead lack the genetics to spawn in a natural setting? Im pretty sure the successful spawn rate for a hatchery Steelie is near none. But I could be wrong...

I have read that link you posted also. But it stills gives me questions.

Thanks for the insight, Id like to hear more from someone who has worked the program.

[wildmanoutdoors]

http://wdfw.wa.gov/factshts/blackmouth.htm

This is all I have but it dosent say if there sterile or if they return to a river to either be colected or try to spawn?

[Dmanmastertracker]

http://wdfw.wa.gov/factshts/blackmouth.htm

This is all I have but it dosent say if there sterile or if they return to a river to either be colected or try to spawn?

I had a feeling that is what you were referring to, the hatchery vs. wild fish issue has been one of the hottest topics for years in the fisheries management of the Sound. This fishery primarily targeted a surplus of fish, the 2.5 million specially raised to promote greater fishing opportunity, yes some of these fish do "make it through" to spawn in rivers, which the State does not necessarily want because they interbreed with wild salmon stocks. Entire natural runs have begun from hatchery raised fish, they will spawn naturally at any given chance, this is one of the reason's I have never considered two genetically identical fish and "different".

[wildmanoutdoors]

So is there a sterile Blackmouth?

[Dmanmastertracker]

So is there a sterile Blackmouth?

 Not that I am aware of, sterilization in fish is generally the result of an artificial hybridization, not a pure strain that is hatchery raised.

[Rick]

A Blackmouth is just an immature Chinook salmon. Its got NOTHING to do with being sterile. There are hatchery raised Blackmouth as well as wild.

A Blackmouth WILL go up a river and spawn,they just have to wait until they mature to do it.

[Rick]

Biologist's around the Sound have found very few Chinook redds and juvenile blackmouth in the salt, which has been an increasing trend on large pink-run years. The exact cause is not yet known, potentially: redd competition and heavy foot traffic could be contributors.

Having spent a lot of time on the sound last summer (like every summer) I can't tell you how many guys we saw bring Blackmouths into the dock thinking they were Humpies.

The Wardens at both the Everett launch and at Sekiu were writing tickets left and right.

Humpy years bring out the yahoos. Thousands of people go fishing that normally wouldn't. I guarantee you they put a large dent in the Blackmouth population.

[Dmanmastertracker]

Having spent a lot of time on the sound last summer (like every summer) I can't tell you how many guys we saw bring Blackmouths into the dock thinking they were Humpies.

The Wardens at both the Everett launch and at Sekiu were writing tickets left and right.

Humpy years bring out the yahoos. Thousands of people go fishing that normally wouldn't. I guarantee you they put a large dent in the Blackmouth population.
[/quote]

 Boy you got that right. I fished the rivers for them last year and there were uncountable numbers of people taking home Coho and Chinook thinking they were Pinks. Everyone around me was asking if the fish they caught were Pinks, I kept having to say; no, no, no..... Sad.

[D-Rock425]

we duck hunted out by Everett today.  The fish checker lady was there and asked if caught anything we showed her some dead ducks.  she said we did better then the fishermen.  A guy I work with did go out and get one blackmouth last weekend

[fishseeker]

Bio's found that smolts held longer in the hatcheries longer tended to stay in the sound instead of going to sea. In the early 70s they starrted doing this to increase the oppertunity for catching fish year round. The fish still returned to thier birth stream don't mater if that is a concrete pond or a net pen in the stream. We used to fish 365 days a year with a 3 fish limit.

[fisheral87]

Not that I am aware of, sterilization in fish is generally the result of an artificial hybridization, not a pure strain that is hatchery raised.

Pure strain? Try finding out where those fish came from, WDFW won't tell you. 

A blackmouth to me is just a juvenile Chinook, not necessarily sterile, not necessarily hatchery.