Here comes the night hunting changes

[billythekidrock]

Are you sure we cant just call them racists, rednecks, knuckle draggers, and nazis, lawyer up, threaten lawsuits and get them to cower in the corner.  That always works against us.  
I hear you guys, I do.  I never said I was gonna write them nasty emails or start cussing them out or anything.  I just think it would be a good idea to let them know that we (as a united group) are not open to any discussion if it includes restricting ANY more hunting.  Then if there is anything in the "draft" that we think is reasonable (doubtful) we could "reluctantly" give ground.  But they already have the idea that we are somehow open to some more restrictions as long as the ALL MIGHTY DEPARTMENT leaves us some scraps.

And I hear you... and agree with you. BUT I am giving them the benefit this time since the person is willing to be forthcoming. Because of that openness I am willing to follow her request of no more emails until the proposal is out. Then we need to come from an organized stand point..and if that don't work then we take bofire's advice.

[Kain]

:)Kain it is just another fight. You can try to rush in and expend energy swinging wildly and bravely only to get your a## kicked by an opponent who covers and or bobs and weaves.
We have to anticipate those "bobs and weaves" be a step ahead, that is hard when you are emotional/angry. I don't think we need changes either, right now we have a chance to convince them, wiht logic. Lets try.
Let us gather data explore other states, other studies, quote them...
and if that does not work




FIRE BOMBS

Carl

That has got to be one of the best posts this year.  

Yeah because logic and facts have always worked against them in the past.    I see I am the odd man out on this so I will take your advice but if you guys think you are gonna be a step ahead or convince them of anything, I hope you are not fooling yourselves.  Even if they get only 1/2 of the restrictions or new permits they are looking for you are still loosing and they will be right back at it on the next issue.  You guys are going to haggle with someone, with nothing to sell, with the hope that they wont charge you full price.

[billythekidrock]

:)Kain it is just another fight. You can try to rush in and expend energy swinging wildly and bravely only to get your a## kicked by an opponent who covers and or bobs and weaves.
We have to anticipate those "bobs and weaves" be a step ahead, that is hard when you are emotional/angry. I don't think we need changes either, right now we have a chance to convince them, wiht logic. Lets try.
Let us gather data explore other states, other studies, quote them...
and if that does not work




FIRE BOMBS

Carl

That has got to be one of the best posts this year. 

Yeah because logic and facts have always worked against them in the past.    I see I am the odd man out on this so I will take your advice but if you guys think you are gonna be a step ahead or convince them of anything, I hope you are not fooling yourselves.  Even if they get only 1/2 of the restrictions or new permits they are looking for you are still loosing and they will be right back at it on the next issue.  You guys are going to haggle with someone, with nothing to sell, with the hope that they wont charge you full price.

Would you rather argue and lose everything or negotiate and only lose a little?
The problem is that F&W is going to take something away regardless. We can not stop them, only slow them down.

[Kain]

I would rather go in saying: "Dont even bother writing a draft because you will not only NOT have our (a united and angry community) support we will fight you with everything we have to stop it".  If you are right we have nothing to loose because we have already lost, we just dont know how badly.

[billythekidrock]

I would rather go in saying: "Dont even bother writing a draft because you will not only NOT have our (a united and angry community) support we will fight you with everything we have to stop it".  If you are right we have nothing to loose because we have already lost, we just dont know how badly.

What do we have to fight it with?

[Gringo31]

We can fight with......emails, voices, meetings, petitions, thousands of signatures....oh yeah, that worked really well on the wolf issue. 

I won't be sending any emails but I'm with Kain.  Any changes will only take away what we currently have.  I'm willing to put some money up and bet against ANYONE thinks that WDFW has come up with a way to truly increase our hunting opportunities.  You may or may not be surprised on the BS that runs deep, as does the agenda.  I'll use this example and try to keep details out.  Let's say there was a state called Schmlaska, where permits are required to access certain National Forests with groups.  The price of that access went from say....around 60 cents/person/day to about 5 bucks.  BUT.........if when you are giving that tour, you agree to talk about global warming etc, etc, etc, they will decrease your price to around one dollar.

Pick your topic in our WDFW, if they are looking into it, we are going to get hozed.  The only guarantee is that they will come out and explain to us that they did it to make things better and we should like it.

P.S.  I like Kain am in a bad mood and am to the point where I EXPECT everything to only get worse.  There is no more common sense, accountability, credibility or even honestly.  Not in govt.
 

[Kain]

I would rather go in saying: "Dont even bother writing a draft because you will not only NOT have our (a united and angry community) support we will fight you with everything we have to stop it".  If you are right we have nothing to loose because we have already lost, we just dont know how badly.

What do we have to fight it with?

Thats a good question.  I am open to ideas.  What do we have?  We need to work on the "united community" first I think. Like calling out to hunting groups for help.  Then see what we can come up with.  There is the usual stuff like letters and meetings.  Is there any legal recourse?  Even if there is little chance of winning we can at least make them pay to fight it.  Political pressure on local and state politicians to stand up for us.  I am just throwing things out there not saying they are great ideas.  I just dont think we should be playing along or bargaining away our hunting right out of the gate.  They do seem to be reaching out to us they must have some desire to have our support.  It seems more like a facade to me but if they truly care what we think why shouldn't they know that we hate what they are doing?

[Skycruiser]

Hello.  The Department of Fish and Wildlife has decided to make some changes to the night-hunting rule, but we are not going to ban it.

WTF???!!!

IS THIS AMERICA??? 

I can only hope there's someone here who can tell us how to fight this legally.

[Kain]

Hello.  The Department of Fish and Wildlife has decided to make some changes to the night-hunting rule, but we are not going to ban it.

WTF???!!!

IS THIS AMERICA??? 

I can only hope there's someone here who can tell us how to fight this legally.

but we are not going to ban it.

Oh thank you great and powerful WDFW.  Thank you for listening to my pitiful excuse for an oppinion as you do what ever you want to me anyways.  You always make me feel like I matter as you rape my hunting opportunities while charging me more for the scraps you leave me. 

I better stop while I still have some stomach lining left. 

[grundy53]

i have another cynical thought.... now that they realize how much we care about this they will figure out how to make more money off of this. such as make a special night hunting licence.

[stumprat]

I agree with BTKR.
I have recieved all of the e-mails. And have talked with Lori on the phone a few times. So far she seems very forthcoming.

Issues like these are the reason I have joined the Western Washington Predator Hunters Association (WWPHA), And the NPHA

Kain,
To fight or negotiate. From an organized front. We first have to get organized.
With the recent rise in interest of predator hunting. I believe this is just the first of many regulation changes.
But so far this is just in the draft stage. Public comment in not scheduled until August. And that is only if they decide to go any further with it in June. From what I have gathered so far. Dave Ware was not aware of the proposal. It seems to be stemming from the Enforcement division. As it stands right now. I find it refreshing that Lori is open to e-mail suggestions and phone calls.

I will respect her wishes. Until June. If it goes any further than that. Then I will E-mail  the commission. And burn up the phone lines.

[stumprat]

Here is a copy of what I sent to Lori.





Lori,
First I want to thank your department. For giving us the opprtunity to voice our suggestions on this matter.
 
With such limited amounts of outdoor activity conducted at night. I am still unsure why this is an issue. Even as predator hunting grows as a sport. There is a very, very small percentage of us that are even willing to hunt at night.
 
If the changes are unavoidable. A firearm restriction is the only change that would make sense to me. Although my thoughts are that a firearm restriction (Shotguns) should only be made on public lands. I would urge you to let private farms. Use thier discretion. As to how to handle thier predator control. In the open fields of farmlands. Many of my shots although closer than daytime hunting. Are still out of shotgun range.
 
The issue of predator control permits. In my opinion. Would cause even more divisiveness between hunters. And that in my opinion would not only hurt us as sportsmen. But the W.D.F.W. as well.
 
 
Thank you for your time.


This E-mail was sent on my own behalf. NOT as a representative of the WWPHA.

[WDFW-SUX]

Just another game law im not going to follow. If its not based in Science I dont care... that means pier reviewed not "trust us" science.


These laws are for people who are stupid.  If I want to shoot a Coon after midnight Im going to do it.

[Gringo31]

The frustration here is due to the fact that the public comment period most often is a formality, not the final piece of bringing together all data.