2010 WDFW Spring Turkey Hunting Pamplet (2008 Harvest Numbers)

[Phantom Gobbler]

Has anyone looked at the harvest numbers in this year's Spring Season Hunting Pamplet yet?  Just picked up my hardcopy.

Total Number of Spring Birds harvested in Washington State dropped from 5302 in 2007 to 4082 in 2008.  Is this reduction (of 1220 bearded birds) solely due to the severe winter conditions of two years ago? This is the first significant decrease in birds harvested (in the NE) since 1996.

What will the harvest numbers look like for the 2009 season? Since we had another long winter with high levels of snow accumulation?

[Diehard0123]

I didn't notice that, I think it has to do with the late spring and not so much about a bad winter, then again alot of guys just couldn't afford thier regular hunting trips to the NorthEast last spring.  I would suspect that the economy is playing a part. I am sure that there are alot of hunters that wont be able to afford trips again this season.  My partners and I have really had to reassess our spending and hunting location due to costs and how the economy is effecting us. 

[littlemac]

 

I must agree that a good portion of it could definitely be the economy last year. We may see a bit of a lift this year with gas prices remaining reasonable and people having adjusted to their current incomes.

Too bad turkey season comes with tax season too, really stings to shell out for property tax and income tax, it definitely effects my retail business for a couple of months as people work through tax time.

[yelp]

It may be the cumulative effects of generalizing fall seasons.  Killing the factory will have an effect over time..  Merriams are the most resilient species in my book.   When hens get killed they can't produce poults (males and females). 2008 winter would effect 2009 birds, as far as winter kill.  2007 winter was mild for the most part. IMO Success rates have increased..but level off  somewhat.  Fall hunting turkey compared to spring is easy..IMO.  The WDFW is using fall seasons as population control.

Other possibilities could be poor hatch, high predation, lousy hunters (no offense), global warming..hippies(no offense) eating turkey all year, not sure.  I plan on trying to my part to ass to the harvest..   

[Wacenturion]

It may be the cumulative effects of generalizing fall seasons.  Killing the factory will have an effect over time..  Merriams are the most resilient species in my book.   When hens get killed they can't produce poults (males and females). 2008 winter would effect 2009 birds, as far as winter kill.  2007 winter was mild for the most part. IMO Success rates have increased..but level off  somewhat.  Fall hunting turkey compared to spring is easy..IMO.  The WDFW is using fall seasons as population control.

Other possibilities could be poor hatch, high predation, lousy hunters (no offense), global warming..hippies(no offense) eating turkey all year, not sure.  I plan on trying to my part to ass to the harvest..  

You got it!  

Want to know what an individual turkey hunter can do management wise to help our wild turkeys...................don't buy into WDFW's bulls*** fall harvest management crap.  Way too liberal..........if someone kills three hens in the fall, someone in the spring is potentially going birdless.  Just say NO!  Make it your personal ethic to take toms only in the fall.
Might also consider not taking multiple birds in the same spot during the spring season.  It's your resource...enjoy it and protect for those coming after you.    

[fishunt247]

Want to know what an individual turkey hunter can do management wise to help our wild turkeys...................don't buy into WDFW's bulls*** fall harvest management crap.  Way too liberal..........if someone kills three hens in the fall, someone in the spring is potentially going birdless.  Just say NO!

This is perfect. A better management plan would be to transplant the excess birds into areas of the state that could use the boost in new blood. Every Merriam county in the state could use the explosion/burst that happens when new blood is introduced. Too logical and "too much work" for the WDFW though.
A lot of it, like diehard said, could be do to less people being in the woods. I saw three people hunting last year, and have seen maybe 6 in the last 3 years combined. Thank god there is no more free turkey tag...those days were unreal.
I'm kind of suprised the numbers dropped off that much. Last year was a banner spring (at least for me), and with the number of jakes called in last spring, I expect this one to be good as well.
Predator numbers have increased everywhere (cougars, bobcats, coyotes) and they will have a significant effect, especially on nests and wintering birds.

[baldopepper]

I can only speak of the area where I'm at, the Hunters/Cedonia area, but I don't think the actual "kill" on the fall/winter hunt truly reflects the harm to the flocks.  The birds are bunched up (very much so for the late hunt)  and are chased out of the limited feeding areas they have on a daily basis.  Kind of tough on them to go into a harsh winter when they are already under nourished.   I spoke with the WDFW people the last two years and warned them that populations were down quite dramitically in the area (I spend a great deal of my time over there and keep a pretty close eye on the turkeys) but they seemed confident that the flocks could use thinning.  I know that this is based to a large part on land owner complaints, keeping in mind that many of the farmers in area refer to turkeys as "winged rats".  They also inform me that trapping is not doable as they really have no more areas in the state that merit anymore transplanting.  Numbers look pretty good over there this year, but I think they are still down a fair amount from 3 years ago.

[Wacenturion]

I can only speak of the area where I'm at, the Hunters/Cedonia area, but I don't think the actual "kill" on the fall/winter hunt truly reflects the harm to the flocks.  The birds are bunched up (very much so for the late hunt)  and are chased out of the limited feeding areas they have on a daily basis.  Kind of tough on them to go into a harsh winter when they are already under nourished.   I spoke with the WDFW people the last two years and warned them that populations were down quite dramitically in the area (I spend a great deal of my time over there and keep a pretty close eye on the turkeys) but they seemed confident that the flocks could use thinning.  I know that this is based to a large part on land owner complaints, keeping in mind that many of the farmers in area refer to turkeys as "winged rats".  They also inform me that trapping is not doable as they really have no more areas in the state that merit anymore transplanting.  Numbers look pretty good over there this year, but I think they are still down a fair amount from 3 years ago.

WDFW is full of crap.........tons of areas to put trapped birds into....Klickitat, Chelan Kittitas,Yakima, Okanogan for one.  They just don't want to do it.  Back in the 90's WDFW did take care of those landowners and trapped excess birds and released them into other counties until 1999.  At that time powers to be within WDFW, Wildlife Management to be exact, took over that program and essentially eliminated it.  That's what actually happened.

By doing so, Wildlife Management created a backed up toilet in the NE by abandoning landowners with nuisance problems by not trapping. Their excuse was that there was no place to release birds...a convenient lie.  Then they started liberalizing fall seasons to kill excess birds.  If some in WDFW could eliminate every turkey they would do so.  The more problems they can attribute to turkeys the easier it is to promote their agenda of getting rid of them.

Wildlife Management is the biggest problem we as sportsman face.  Those who make decisions about game species and seasons should at least at the top be replaced.  Just what have they done that benefits us in the last 20 years.  Less opportunity overall, wolves, state of the art permit systems and on and on?  Turkeys however are excluded from the list....because they didn't do that, another division did. 

[Wacenturion]

"Thank god there is no more free turkey tag...those days were unreal."

Just another crowning achievement from WDFW's Wildlife Management ..........free taggers.  I agree......thank God big time.  Really promoted the sport .....huh.

[fishunt247]

All the free turkey tag was up the numbers of turkeys being pushed and wingshot like pheasants, shot out of car windows and out of roosts, and crowd the woods with people who couldn't care less about turkeys.
And yes, as Wacent mentioned, all of those places (and the people that hunt them) would gladly accept excess birds. With the help of local NWTF chapters, birds were transplanted there, and some of those populations are doing quite well. They still could use a boost. What a shame it would be to have great populations like we have in the NE in all of the other Merriam's counties as well, right? There is no revenue in that for the WDFW, so they quickly stopped doing it.
Good point on running wintering flocks around. They take pretty decent measures to protect wintering elk (the real revenue maker for them), but they don't care about turkeys. But still, for every hen killed, you have to think about the broods she could have had for the next few springs.

[Wacenturion]

It's usually the boss hen who leads the flock.  Where she goes the rest follow.  She is an adult, a survivor and most likely a proven successful nester.  Jennys  are not as successful with their nesting attempts during their first year.  Jennys are also smaller.  The adult hens are larger.  Guess which ones are the logical choice to shoot as the flock is coming single file.  Do ya think maybe that big lead hen is likely to take a dirt nap?  That equals fewer poults the following spring.

fishunt247.......On to your comment and the larger problem................Turkeys are indeed a money maker, not just for WDFW but also the state's economy.  Too bad WDFW can't figure that one out.  Its the state stupid, not your po dunk agency.  If they would simply put back a good share of the profits to the programs that generated them to continue to grow the program and use the remainder to grow others.....oh... I forgot....that's too freak-in simply for those idiots to figure out.

Its so simple it's pathetic.  Some history (from a WDFW report).....................

"Prior to turkey augmentation activity in the late 1980s, hunter numbers fell to a low of 428 (1987) and turkey harvests averaged 65-birds/ year (1983-1987)."

So now we are harvesting 4082 birds in 08' and 5137 and 5302 respectively in 06' and 07'.  Hunter numbers or lets say tags sold are probably in the 35,000 to 40,000 range figuring a 10% success rate, which is generous.  Usually it runs about 15% success, so tag sales are probably closer to the upper number.

Considering WSDFW had virtually no income off of turkeys in the mid to late 80's, you would think some reinvestment of profits for the turkey program and other game programs was in order.  Hell of a way to run a business....that folks is the problem.  That does not even take into account all the additional revenue generated in state to stores like Cabelas and others, guide services, motels, resturants, gas stations, and on and on.  Sad but true.  WDFW has people running things that by all intents and purposes are probably related to and have the IQ of Pelosi and Reed.

[Tom Tamer]

I can only speak of the area where I'm at, the Hunters/Cedonia area, but I don't think the actual "kill" on the fall/winter hunt truly reflects the harm to the flocks.  The birds are bunched up (very much so for the late hunt)  and are chased out of the limited feeding areas they have on a daily basis.  Kind of tough on them to go into a harsh winter when they are already under nourished.   I spoke with the WDFW people the last two years and warned them that populations were down quite dramitically in the area (I spend a great deal of my time over there and keep a pretty close eye on the turkeys) but they seemed confident that the flocks could use thinning.  I know that this is based to a large part on land owner complaints, keeping in mind that many of the farmers in area refer to turkeys as "winged rats".  They also inform me that trapping is not doable as they really have no more areas in the state that merit anymore transplanting.  Numbers look pretty good over there this year, but I think they are still down a fair amount from 3 years ago.

WDFW is full of crap.........tons of areas to put trapped birds into....Klickitat, Chelan Kittitas,Yakima, Okanogan for one.  They just don't want to do it.  Back in the 90's WDFW did take care of those landowners and trapped excess birds and released them into other counties until 1999.  At that time powers to be within WDFW, Wildlife Management to be exact, took over that program and essentially eliminated it.  That's what actually happened.

By doing so, Wildlife Management created a backed up toilet in the NE by abandoning landowners with nuisance problems by not trapping. Their excuse was that there was no place to release birds...a convenient lie.  Then they started liberalizing fall seasons to kill excess birds.  If some in WDFW could eliminate every turkey they would do so.  The more problems they can attribute to turkeys the easier it is to promote their agenda of getting rid of them.

Wildlife Management is the biggest problem we as sportsman face.  Those who make decisions about game species and seasons should at least at the top be replaced.  Just what have they done that benefits us in the last 20 years.  Less opportunity overall, wolves, state of the art permit systems and on and on?  Turkeys however are excluded from the list....because they didn't do that, another division did. 

And those in the NWTF, We are beating the drum of transplanting but the WDFW will have nothing to do with it. But beleive me we( NWTF volunteers) are not going to quit, we will be doing more and more habitat enhancements and working hard with landowners now to eliminate the over population birds.  But we could use more help, get out and talk with landowners that there is help and most of it would be free to them, through grants from the NWTF w can do many things, from oat hay bales to keep flocks out of their feed. We can giv out hay nets and are doing some plantings of buffer zones to teach the birds where they can get easy food in the winter while keeping them out of the farmers feed lots.

[Wacenturion]

Might just do the math.............

40,000 turkey tags (now being sold) minus 428 turkey tags ( sold in 1987) = 39,572 tags X $15.00 = $593,580.  A mere pittance.

[yelp]

I can only speak of the area where I'm at, the Hunters/Cedonia area, but I don't think the actual "kill" on the fall/winter hunt truly reflects the harm to the flocks.  The birds are bunched up (very much so for the late hunt)  and are chased out of the limited feeding areas they have on a daily basis.  Kind of tough on them to go into a harsh winter when they are already under nourished.   I spoke with the WDFW people the last two years and warned them that populations were down quite dramitically in the area (I spend a great deal of my time over there and keep a pretty close eye on the turkeys) but they seemed confident that the flocks could use thinning.  I know that this is based to a large part on land owner complaints, keeping in mind that many of the farmers in area refer to turkeys as "winged rats".  They also inform me that trapping is not doable as they really have no more areas in the state that merit anymore transplanting.  Numbers look pretty good over there this year, but I think they are still down a fair amount from 3 years ago.

WDFW is full of crap.........tons of areas to put trapped birds into....Klickitat, Chelan Kittitas,Yakima, Okanogan for one.  They just don't want to do it.  Back in the 90's WDFW did take care of those landowners and trapped excess birds and released them into other counties until 1999.  At that time powers to be within WDFW, Wildlife Management to be exact, took over that program and essentially eliminated it.  That's what actually happened.

By doing so, Wildlife Management created a backed up toilet in the NE by abandoning landowners with nuisance problems by not trapping. Their excuse was that there was no place to release birds...a convenient lie.  Then they started liberalizing fall seasons to kill excess birds.  If some in WDFW could eliminate every turkey they would do so.  The more problems they can attribute to turkeys the easier it is to promote their agenda of getting rid of them.

Wildlife Management is the biggest problem we as sportsman face.  Those who make decisions about game species and seasons should at least at the top be replaced.  Just what have they done that benefits us in the last 20 years.  Less opportunity overall, wolves, state of the art permit systems and on and on?  Turkeys however are excluded from the list....because they didn't do that, another division did.  

And those in the NWTF, We are beating the drum of transplanting but the WDFW will have nothing to do with it. But beleive me we( NWTF volunteers) are not going to quit, we will be doing more and more habitat enhancements and working hard with landowners now to eliminate the over population birds.  But we could use more help, get out and talk with landowners that there is help and most of it would be free to them, through grants from the NWTF w can do many things, from oat hay bales to keep flocks out of their feed. We can giv out hay nets and are doing some plantings of buffer zones to teach the birds where they can get easy food in the winter while keeping them out of the farmers feed lots.

I suggest more educational material to handout to landowners about damage and feeding issues.  For example..A simple switch from Oat hay to Barley hay will reduce turkey problems.  Have handouts at feed stores and other areas that local landowners frequent.

Using Farm bill programs with local conservation districts, and NRCS offices to get funding for wildlife projects.

Buffers must be large enough to produce enough of an incentive and attractiveness to be effective.   Paying landowners to leave parts of crops (field edges/strips) an easy and affordable way to create areas that will attract wildlife to assist with damages.  

Hay nets have worked great too.  

[Hangfire]

The 07/08 winter was one of the winters with heavy snow fall.  At my home, west of Deer Park a few miles, we received 111.75 inches of snow. This occurred from November into April.  This is the low land farm area. That winter affected the 2008 turkey season.

The 08/09 winter gave 105.775 inches of snow fromNovember into April with traces of snow into June. Spokane had the all time snow amount for a winter.

During both winters the wildlife kill was more than normal.  Part of the problem was animals on roads, hit by cars and shot by people for what ever reason. Heavy snow makes more vulnerable to predators.

The 09/10 winter has put 24.3 inches of snow through today (we are to get snow to night). This may be the all time least snow winter on record, for Spokane.

The last two springs has had periods of rain at hatch time, impact?   What I observed last year was the average clutch size was 4-6 birds per hen when about a month old.

This area has almost no hunting pressure during the fall season.  The local wildlife agent said they can't get people to hunt the fall birds. I see almost no people hunting turkeys in the fall.