Night Time Hunting

[Machias]

From Mrs. Preuss/WDFW

Hi, Fred.  What you saw was a preproposal inquiry--a way to determine whether the public has any preliminary comments on the subject.  We have not yet formulated any changes to our nighttime hunting rule, and we may not change anything at all.  If we do, you will see it on the Internet at our Website on June 23rd, and you will be able to testify at the Fish and Wildlife Commission meeting in August if you want to.  Again, we haven't done anything at this point, and we may decide to scrap any changes.  I'll keep you updated.
Lori

[rasbo]

hate to be negitive ,But,Im sure its coming down the pipe..Shall we chant?Please let there be a change in wa state politics

[bobcat]

How is the public supposed to comment on NOTHING    Tell us what the changes might be, then maybe we can comment.

It's like the special permit fiasco. They got comments, from their scoping survey, that told them people would like to have better odds of drawing a permit. They then began working on a plan to supposedly make odds better, but didn't bother telling the public about it until it was already done. Sure they had a meeting and allowed a few weeks for people to send in written comments, but that was just to make it look like they cared what the people thought...

[Machias]

The thing that gets me is, it's a "preproposal inquiry"  So they have some smuck sitting around thinking about ways to Puck with hunters???  Probably the same &@#^ that decided hunting coyotes with dogs was socially unacceptable.   

[Curly]

I'm going to send a letter to WDFW and the commission.  I don't even hunt at night, but it pisses me off what they did with coyote hunting with dogs, the new special permit system, and other issues.......so I'm going to send them a letter letting them know how don't appreciate them taking away opportunity for folks trying to enjoy the outdoors.

I think it is good that it is in the preproposal inquiry stage........maybe that will give us time to flood them with letter and phone calls letting them know we don't appreciate it.

[Machias]

All these years of only hunting yotes at night, only during the bobcat and raccoon seasons!!  

From the Enforcement section:

As per page 56 of the big game pamphlet, coyote may be hunted at night EXCEPT that it is unlawful to hunt any wildlife at night during the months of September, October, or November in any area open to a centerfire rifle deer or elk season.  
 
Thank you,
 
Sean Carrell
WDFW, Enforcement Program
360-902-2936
FAX: 360-902-2155

[Guano]

Thanks for doing the leg work Machias!!!  Good to know info, straight from the source.

[WiseOldYote]

You can still hunt at night in those areas which have no current firearm big game season open. They are only concerned with spotting the big game during their open seasons.

I too share lots of frustration with all you other guys who night hunt. Our game dept. needs an overhaul! It is just too bad all of us law abiding night hunters have to almost hire an attourney to interpret the damn regs, or any other part of that phamphlet!!!

[Kain]

All these years of only hunting yotes at night, only during the bobcat and raccoon seasons!!  

From the Enforcement section:

As per page 56 of the big game pamphlet, coyote may be hunted at night EXCEPT that it is unlawful to hunt any wildlife at night during the months of September, October, or November in any area open to a centerfire rifle deer or elk season.  
 
Thank you,
 
Sean Carrell
WDFW, Enforcement Program
360-902-2936
FAX: 360-902-2155

Was that an email?  Could you forward that to my email so I can print it out and carry it with me?  Thanks for getting a confirmation.
naithankain@gmail.com

[Machias]

It was, it's at work and I will e-mail it to you first thing Monday morning.

[Skycruiser]

I just received this email from Lori Preuss headed "Ideas for nighttime hunting changes"

Hello, Gentlemen.  I spoke with the Deputy Chief of Enforcement, and he would still like to make a few changes to the nighttime hunting rule (WAC 232-28-342).  To that end, he asked that I run a few ideas past you guys to see what you think, and to find out if you have any suggestions of your own.  Here are some possibilities we’ve come up with:

1.       Limit nighttime hunting to shotguns rather than rifles, to reduce the ammo’s range.  Maybe also limit it to shotguns using shot rather than slugs.

2.      Issue permits for predator control, so that those of you who provide predator-control services can be exempt from the changes or have new liberties (such as the use of hounds to hunt coyote).

3.      Issue permits for depredation hunters or landowners to take deer and elk that are causing damage to commercial crops.  These hunters would be allowed to use night-vision scopes or spotlights.

I appreciate any feedback you want to provide.
 
Lori Preuss, WSBA #33045
WDFW Criminal Justice Liaison & Administrative Regulations Coordinator
Lori.preuss@dfw.wa.gov
360.902.2930
Fax 360.902.2155


My thoughts:

Proliferating regulations carry with them a cost of enforcement, diverting funds from areas where they provide more value. Any permitting process carries a huge overhead cost and is often a needless hindrance.

Personally, my opinion is that no changes are needed to the night hunting regulations, other than to clarify the wording regarding big game seasons. Shotguns appear to be the weapon of choice for most night time coyote hunters, but I see no reason to codify the limitation. Raccoon hunters routinely use .22's and shotguns would result in unnecessary meat and pelt damage. The same holds true for bobcat hunters.

The use of hounds for hunting coyotes should not require a permit but should simply be approved in the regulations.

Spot lights and night vision equipment should simply be legal whenever and wherever hunting is legal at night (including landowners legally addressing crop predation).

[Special T]

More paper work= job security it proves how much they do!

[bobcat]

I agree. Any additional rules they come up with in this subject is simply a waste of time and money. I suppose if anything, they could limit night time hunting for predators to shotguns with shot, 22 rimfires, and 22 centerfire cartridges.

[billythekidrock]

I just received this email from Lori Preuss headed "Ideas for nighttime hunting changes"

Hello, Gentlemen.  I spoke with the Deputy Chief of Enforcement, and he would still like to make a few changes to the nighttime hunting rule (WAC 232-28-342).  To that end, he asked that I run a few ideas past you guys to see what you think, and to find out if you have any suggestions of your own.  Here are some possibilities we’ve come up with:

1.       Limit nighttime hunting to shotguns rather than rifles, to reduce the ammo’s range.  Maybe also limit it to shotguns using shot rather than slugs.

2.      Issue permits for predator control, so that those of you who provide predator-control services can be exempt from the changes or have new liberties (such as the use of hounds to hunt coyote).

3.      Issue permits for depredation hunters or landowners to take deer and elk that are causing damage to commercial crops.  These hunters would be allowed to use night-vision scopes or spotlights.

I appreciate any feedback you want to provide.
 
Lori Preuss, WSBA #33045
WDFW Criminal Justice Liaison & Administrative Regulations Coordinator
Lori.preuss@dfw.wa.gov
360.902.2930
Fax 360.902.2155

Absolutely not! No changes are needed.

Like I stated at the WWPHA meeting on Saturday:
Any changes, or those that are limiting by date or region are the beginnings of a slippery slope.
Issuing permits for predator control will be the beginning of a new series of licenses.

[Kain]

I am with you guys....NO CHANGES NEEDED.  What is wrong with these people?

[Kain]

My email:

To whom it may concern,

I really don't understand why any changes are needed to night time hunting.  The WDFW continually finds some mock reason to take away hunting opportunity from us.  I use free predator control to get access to private property, now they want to implement ANOTHER permit?  I really need to hear what reasons the Deputy Chief of Enforcement has that out of the blue he wants "make a few changes to the nighttime hunting rule".  WHY?  Maybe it would be more helpful if the department focused on enforcing CURRENT laws instead of creating more regulations and stripping the citizens of MORE hunting opportunity.   Night-vision and spotlights for deer and elk?  Are you kidding me?  Tell these land owners if they want their "problem" animals taken care of they should consider letting hunters on their land and the department could change the season and harvest limits.

Not that it will make any difference but I dont see that ANY changes need to be made to nighttime hunting other than to make the regs easier to understand. 

Naithan Kain

The response:

On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 9:35 AM, Preuss, Lori (DFW) <Lori.Preuss@dfw.wa.gov> wrote:
Hi, Naithan.  Thank you for your comments.  At this point, we do not really have any specific changes in mind.  We are simply investigating options.  Your feedback is helpful.

My response:

Thanks for the reply but I still dont understand WHY the WDFW is even "investigating options".  Is the department just bored or do they have a quota on messing with hunters to fill?  What happened to a three year hunting plan?  My family and I really dont have time to go to these meetings every few months to try and stop you guys from making MORE changes.  I can barely keep up with reading all emails and updates to fishing and hunting.  I just got an email about the new changes to the hunting regs and was blown away at some of the MAJOR changes that were in them.  What is going on up there?  Why does it feel like its hunters vs. the WDFW?  There is no reason for nighttime hunting changes.  Please just leave us predator hunters alone.

Naithan Kain

[Kain]

Preuss, Lori (DFW) to me, Commission, Wildthing, Enforcement
show details 11:08 AM (1 hour ago)
Hi, Naithan.  We are investigating making changes to nighttime hunting for two reasons:
1)       Recently a U.S. Forest Ranger was shot and killed at night in central Georgia by a hunter who mistook him for a coyote; and

2)      We have a fair amount of deer and elk poaching at night every year by folks who claim to be hunting for coyote.
Response:
Again, however, we have made no clear decision to implement any changes.  And if we do decide to proceed with a rule-change proposal, the public will have the opportunity to comment in writing and in person before the WA Fish and Wildlife Commission.
Thank you for your interest and your feedback.  I’ll let you know if we file a rule-change proposal.

My reply:

So they want to punish lawful responsible hunters because of poachers and irresponsible hunters?  Great! 

I have nothing but respect for our law enforcement, in fact I think we need many more of them.  Poaching and trespassing are ruining hunting in this state but you cant pass a law every time something bad happens.  The Ranger being killed in Georgia is tragic but with number of nighttime hunters all across the country for years and years the danger is very low.  Being in law enforcement is a dangerous job and I am not trying to suggest that it was the officers fault but maybe changing the policy to carrying lights and a loud speaker would be more helpful.  Providing a number in the regs for us hunters to call and let enforcement know where we will be hunting could also be helpful.  I would like to see more officers in my hunting area as I currently go years without seeing any and I am in the woods nearly every weekend.  I am sure we can figure out some way to protect our officers and game without restricting anymore hunting opportunities.   I will keep thinking on it and get my family and friends to come up with ideas also.

Thank you for your time,
Naithan Kain

[runamuk]

Ummm an accident in Georgia has little bearing on WA if you ask me.... I call BS

well then if poaching is a legitimate concern petition to get more enforcement officers out during the seasons.....stop screwing with the citizens and start taking responsible action to enforce all the laws we already have that address the majority of issues they could ever raise.  This state is so loaded to the gills with bureaucracy that it makes me want to vomit.... we have to stop solving Washington's problems by creating more problems.....we need to kick out 99% of the people running this state nd replace them all with normal people who know what its like to problem solve without the benefit of using other peoples money and taking other peoples opportunities 

[Viszla]

3.      Issue permits for depredation hunters or landowners to take deer and elk that are causing damage to commercial crops.  These hunters would be allowed to use night-vision scopes or spotlights.

So hunting at night for deer and/or elk would be legal if you have a permit??  All of these proposals are a bunch of crap but I would sure love to get one of the night hunting permits.

[duckmen1]

I agree. Any additional rules they come up with in this subject is simply a waste of time and money. I suppose if anything, they could limit night time hunting for predators to shotguns with shot, 22 rimfires, and 22 centerfire cartridges.

ya thought i'd use a .338 for coons but it dont look like thats going to happen

[86thecat]

More paper work= job security it proves how much they do!

More paperwork equals more cost to the hunter. If they are going to issue night hunting and predator permits, there will be fees.
Every bit of new paperwork means hiring more staff, with all the associated expense, to process it.