kramman, I was referring to your "drop into the draws towards the fields of Havillah". Yes, those are both Forest Service roads, but many of the lower draws off both of them lead right into the private. Actually, on the road to the west, private runs up and just below the road. GPS with the proper mapping would be a must to be in there and not cross lines. Yes, that outfitter has posted signs where he shouldn't.....those I ignore.