Methow Valley Bulletin Board... Wolf Wars.

[grundy53]

Lowedog...  I would like to know where you stand on the subject.  If you do not agree with either side (Pro-wolf or proper management)  Is there another side that I am not seeing here with all the wolf discussions?

he's pro wolf... he just won't come out and say it. he say's he's in the middle but everytime someone brings up a wolf issue there he is taking the pro wolf side...

[bearpaw]

Lowedog, I am very sorry if you feel I have bullied you, that was not my intention.  

I'm not sure I see how I am "using wolves", or how anyone else is "using wolves" when we simply want to live a peaceful life without them.
But since wolves have been forced upon us, my intention is to inform people about what wolves do, and to back up what I say with facts.  

Here's a new link for you to watch, and feel free to participate, it's a public forum.

Will Wolves Impact The Methow Valley?
http://www.methownet.com/bulletinboard.html

[WDFW-SUX]

sss

[jackelope]

  Bearpaw it's no use arguing with a

Lowedog...  I would like to know where you stand on the subject.  If you do not agree with either side (Pro-wolf or proper management)  Is there another side that I am not seeing here with all the wolf discussions?

he's pro wolf... he just won't come out and say it. he say's he's in the middle but everytime someone brings up a wolf issue there he is taking the pro wolf side...

The problem with these conversations is that there is no 2 sides when the anti-wolf crowd gets involved here. You're either with them or you suck and you're pro-wolf. I tried for a while and it's useless. I haven't posted on a wolf topic on here in a while and this will be my last. The anti-wolf side on here like wolfbait are not interested in any other side of the discussion except their own. I would guarantee you that Lowedog is not pro-wolf...probably more along the same lines as me. I would almost guarantee that he thinks along the lines of logical thinking. Thoughts like if we want to work towards delisting, the wolf sightings need to be reported and not blown off like most do.
Some of you guys should open your eyes a little and think logically and patiently.
All the talk about illegally transplanted wolves yet nobody has ever produced proof of it yet and it's been going on for a couple years. Quit flapping your gums about illegally transplanted wolves unless you have some proof. We were promised it a couple years ago and still nothing. Your arguments are pointless till there is proof.
I'm all for delisting and management by hunting and other more effective means for the record, but we got to get together on this and not call everyone a tree hugger or a pro-wolf'er everytime they disagree with the kill-em-all crowd.

[Lowedog]

Lowedog...  I would like to know where you stand on the subject.  If you do not agree with either side (Pro-wolf or proper management)  Is there another side that I am not seeing here with all the wolf discussions?

he's pro wolf... he just won't come out and say it. he say's he's in the middle but everytime someone brings up a wolf issue there he is taking the pro wolf side...

grundy, its nice that you want to speak for me but maybe you should read some of my posts on the subject before you do so you might actually know what you are talking about. 

If you can show me where I have taken a pro wolf side on this please do so.


coop, I am pro management which to me does not mean eradication.  If you have read much of Bearpaws and others position they want no wolves which would mean eradication.  I think they need to be delisted and that the latest ruling by Malloy has turned the ESA into a farce that is now used as a political tool.  I think each state should be given the right to manage wolves how they see fit. 

Lowedog, I am very sorry if you feel I have bullied you, that was not my intention.   

I'm not sure I see how I am "using wolves", or how anyone else is "using wolves" when we simply want to live a peaceful life without them.
But since wolves have been forced upon us, my intention is to inform people about what wolves do, and to back up what I say with facts. 

Here's a new link for you to watch, and feel free to participate, it's a public forum.

Will Wolves Impact The Methow Valley?
http://www.methownet.com/bulletinboard.html

Bearpaw, I don't feel I have been bullied by you or anyone else.  I actually shouldn't lump you in with some of those that you associate with on the wolf issue.  If anyone read through the posts on the link I provided they would probably have seen what I am referring to about bullying and insults.  To me that is just a pathetic tactic to use to try and get your point across and will push more "neutral" people away from your point of view.  This FreeCoyote (Todd Fross) admitted that he was summoned there to "deal" with CosmicRose.  These people from other states went out of their way to join this small community bulletin board to insult and harass some woman that lives in the Methow just because she doesn't share their point of view. 

I have to admit though that I didn't see any insults from you Bearpaw.  You did actually post up strong eveidence. 

That was my whole point of this thread.  It is said all the time that the greenies are the extremist.  In my point of view there are some pretty extreme people on both sides. 

If people want to eradicate introduced wolves then so be it.  There were wolves already established in some areas so how are you going to differentiate which are which?  Regarding the wolves in the Methow, until someone proves that wolves were or are being introduced there then I will have to assume that those wolves came there naturally from BC. 

[WAcoyotehunter]

Sorry to leave you hanging Lowedog (I was out petting my tamed canadian gray wolves!  ).  I agree with Jackelope on this one.  It's to the point now that arguing and bickering is doing no good.  On both sides (pro and anti wolf) logic and reason has been replaced with posturing and rhetoric.  The proper management action is likely somewhere in the middle of the two polar opposites...where you appear to be. 

[grundy53]

  Bearpaw it's no use arguing with a

Lowedog...  I would like to know where you stand on the subject.  If you do not agree with either side (Pro-wolf or proper management)  Is there another side that I am not seeing here with all the wolf discussions?

he's pro wolf... he just won't come out and say it. he say's he's in the middle but everytime someone brings up a wolf issue there he is taking the pro wolf side...

The problem with these conversations is that there is no 2 sides when the anti-wolf crowd gets involved here. You're either with them or you suck and you're pro-wolf. I tried for a while and it's useless. I haven't posted on a wolf topic on here in a while and this will be my last. The anti-wolf side on here like wolfbait are not interested in any other side of the discussion except their own. I would guarantee you that Lowedog is not pro-wolf...probably more along the same lines as me. I would almost guarantee that he thinks along the lines of logical thinking. Thoughts like if we want to work towards delisting, the wolf sightings need to be reported and not blown off like most do.
Some of you guys should open your eyes a little and think logically and patiently.
All the talk about illegally transplanted wolves yet nobody has ever produced proof of it yet and it's been going on for a couple years. Quit flapping your gums about illegally transplanted wolves unless you have some proof. We were promised it a couple years ago and still nothing. Your arguments are pointless till there is proof.
I'm all for delisting and management by hunting and other more effective means for the record, but we got to get together on this and not call everyone a tree hugger or a pro-wolf'er everytime they disagree with the kill-em-all crowd.

I have never once said they were transplanted in Washington. But they are here now. The only thing patience is going to get you is a repeat of Idaho. The next thing you know we will be in the same position fighting reactively to a already bad situation . We have to be proactive. To each his own but don't think for a minute that sitting back and doing nothing is going to help anything.

[Dave Workman]

The only reason Scott fitkin get HIRED AS BIOLGOLIST PROWOLF  with all LIES to save their money not to pay Rancher for their Loss Livestock and afraid they MAY to order Wolf Deperation Control! But...........  I read He said as Scott Fitkin HIRED TWO FEILD AGENT SAMEDAY at Scene and to tracking Wolves pack use VHS Collar on two wolves that way FEILD AGENT can PUSH THEM out DIRECTION FROM THOSE Scene to say ITS NOT WOLVES.  No Wonder why they are completely PROTECTING Wolves for USFWS......

Mulehunter  

As for wolves, this has the makings of a disaster and others can probably speak to this better than me, but it appears that the WDFW is gradually working toward a management scenario in which they severely restrict hunting in order to provide a prey base for the wolves.

It would not bother me at all if the wolves suddenly went back to the Mother Ship. They are not endangered. There are thousands of them and the fact that most of them live in Canada is T.S.  

Those who want wolves by the thousands are  

I suspect, without evidence, that these animals were illegally introduced, perhaps as far back as a decade or more when the Clinton admin was illegally diverting USFWS-managed Pittman Robertson funds for all kinds of crap that had nothing to do with federal aid to wildlife programs.  

[jackelope]

  Bearpaw it's no use arguing with a

Lowedog...  I would like to know where you stand on the subject.  If you do not agree with either side (Pro-wolf or proper management)  Is there another side that I am not seeing here with all the wolf discussions?

he's pro wolf... he just won't come out and say it. he say's he's in the middle but everytime someone brings up a wolf issue there he is taking the pro wolf side...

The problem with these conversations is that there is no 2 sides when the anti-wolf crowd gets involved here. You're either with them or you suck and you're pro-wolf. I tried for a while and it's useless. I haven't posted on a wolf topic on here in a while and this will be my last. The anti-wolf side on here like wolfbait are not interested in any other side of the discussion except their own. I would guarantee you that Lowedog is not pro-wolf...probably more along the same lines as me. I would almost guarantee that he thinks along the lines of logical thinking. Thoughts like if we want to work towards delisting, the wolf sightings need to be reported and not blown off like most do.
Some of you guys should open your eyes a little and think logically and patiently.
All the talk about illegally transplanted wolves yet nobody has ever produced proof of it yet and it's been going on for a couple years. Quit flapping your gums about illegally transplanted wolves unless you have some proof. We were promised it a couple years ago and still nothing. Your arguments are pointless till there is proof.
I'm all for delisting and management by hunting and other more effective means for the record, but we got to get together on this and not call everyone a tree hugger or a pro-wolf'er everytime they disagree with the kill-em-all crowd.

I have never once said they were transplanted in Washington. But they are here now. The only thing patience is going to get you is a repeat of Idaho. The next thing you know we will be in the same position fighting reactively to a already bad situation . We have to be proactive. To each his own but don't think for a minute that sitting back and doing nothing is going to help anything.

1-Nobody said it was you who was talking about them being illegally transplanted.

2-Nobody said anything about sitting back and doing nothing.

[bearpaw]

Lowedog I think you went on a witch hunt with this thread from the beginning and I let it go. I played your game as nicely as anyone would, but then when you sounded like a greenie protecting a greenie, you sucked some of the guys into calling you a greenie, so you have no sympathy from me.

I THINK YOU WENT FISHING FOR IT.....

That woman cosmic rose was no more innocent than longshot. She did more than her share of antagonizing and longshot let a lot of it go by, when she was showed up by some hard facts from other states, then she tried to throw a guilt trip on us, which you apparently fell for. The thread is gone, but she was as guilty as anyone for antagonizing others, she was after longshot in nearly every post.

The "whatever is acceptable word to call" groups will not meet in the middle. They call us killers and attack us all the time. I get email from the greenies every day http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,48806.msg701756.html#msg701756    (those are only the few that I choose to show everyone)

I don't ask them to watch my videos, it's their choice, and then they threaten me. I don't watch their videos and then threaten to shoot them.

So get out of our faces that we are somehow bullying the greenies, they are the ones sending email every day threatening to shoot people. They are the ones attacking hunting and promoting wolves (which they have no intention of ever managing) to kill off our game herds so they can end hunting.
(that is where it's headed, they even say it's their goal)

I really think you need to think about how it appears to the guys you are critisizing.    

[grundy53]

Lowedog I think you went on a witch hunt with this thread from the beginning and I let it go. I played your game as nicely as anyone would, but then when you sounded like a greenie protecting a greenie, you sucked some of the guys into calling you a greenie, so you have no sympathy from me.

I THINK YOU WENT FISHING FOR IT.....

That woman cosmic rose was no more innocent than longshot. She did more than her share of antagonizing and longshot let a lot of it go by, when she was showed up by some hard facts from other states, then she tried to throw a guilt trip on us, which you apparently fell for. The thread is gone, but she was as guilty as anyone for antagonizing others, she was after longshot in nearly every post.

The "whatever is acceptable word to call" groups will not meet in the middle. They call us killers and attack us all the time. I get email from the greenies every day http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,48806.msg701756.html#msg701756    (those are only the few that I choose to show everyone)

I don't ask them to watch my videos, it's their choice, and then they threaten me. I don't watch their videos and then threaten to shoot them.

So get out of our faces that we are somehow bullying the greenies, they are the ones sending email every day threatening to shoot people. They are the ones attacking hunting and trying to plant wolves (which they have no intention of ever managing) to kill off our game herds so they can end hunting.
(that is where it's headed, they even say it's their goal)

I really think you need to think about how it appears to the guys you are critisizing.    

Very well put!

[Ray]

A good friend shared this comment with me recently:

Wolves have their place in Washington state....





































Buried in a ditch.

LOL.

I believe the USFWS has exemplified along with the federal court systems their complete abuse of authority, an inability to protect citizens' rights, property and best interest when it comes to wolves. Whether it is moving the goal line as the wolf recovery started until now, inability to accurately forecast the impact on existing wildlife populations, inability to contain or estimate wolf damages, or subversion of law and morals. Including in and out of the courts. All are prime examples of what has been done wrong when it comes to wolf re-introduction. 

Even discarding the thought that wolves are planted, relocated or whatever... we can see how the government has failed in many ways. Including working between state and federal agencies. That line has been the source of many problems in the past.

The wolf is not an endangered species and I generally concur with the idea (as it is a stated goal) that pro wolf organizations plan to use this tool/reintroction of wolves to end hunting.

Since wolves cannot be delisted and since they are also not really endangered then I don't see how someone could call another a poacher if they took down a wolf. Especially if they do not know the entire circumstances. At any rate you can "what if" that idea until you are dead. It's kind of a name calling argument if you will.

[mulehunter]

The only reason Scott fitkin get HIRED AS BIOLGOLIST PROWOLF  with all LIES to save their money not to pay Rancher for their Loss Livestock and afraid they MAY to order Wolf Deperation Control! But...........  I read He said as Scott Fitkin HIRED TWO FEILD AGENT SAMEDAY at Scene and to tracking Wolves pack use VHS Collar on two wolves that way FEILD AGENT can PUSH THEM out DIRECTION FROM THOSE Scene to say ITS NOT WOLVES.  No Wonder why they are completely PROTECTING Wolves for USFWS......

Mulehunter  

I caught you dave workman said you didnt understand this. before Jackelope change your post... Yes I need to re- read before click sent...  Here I will say again better this time.

Yes I spell wrong I will correct Field....

First of all. 

Guy from Okanagon County Officer name CAL the Gamedept said ITS WOLF KILL..... when He arrival But  Biologlist arrival later and DISAGREED WITH OTHER OFFICER CAL.... So  Scott Fitkin contact two field agents to get their Wolves Collar signal by use Tracking Radio and Antenna and they went up in mountain. WHY DO YOU THINK THEY ARE WORKING IN MOUNTAIN.... Obviouly they knew Wolves are VERY CLOSE to those Cow kill. So what happen those Field Agent zipper mouth start to walking out toward to where Pack are by use Antenna and keep pushing and pushing and going whole the day and few days later.... They came back with RESULT of saying Wolves arent around here.  GO figure...... No wonder why Scott fitkin doesnt want to HELP LARRY with their LOSS COW and Birth Calf. Plus I believe Scott Fitkin Loves his job and his FIRST Wolves Pack in MANY MANY YEARS as CAREER and doesnt want to get order Wolf Deperation Control to removel Pack.

Seem like they are thinking very smart thing to fool ALL OF US!


Mulehunter

[grundy53]

A good friend shared this comment with me recently:

Wolves have their place in Washington state....





































Buried in a ditch.

LOL.

I believe the USFWS has exemplified along with the federal court systems their complete abuse of authority, an inability to protect citizens' rights, property and best interest when it comes to wolves. Whether it is moving the goal line as the wolf  :chuckle:recovery started until now, inability to accurately forecast the impact on existing wildlife populations, inability to contain or estimate wolf damages, or subversion of law and morals. Including in and out of the courts. All are prime examples of what has been done wrong when it comes to wolf re-introduction. 

Even discarding the thought that wolves are planted, relocated or whatever... we can see how the government has failed in many ways. Including working between state and federal agencies. That line has been the source of many problems in the past.

The wolf is not an endangered species and I generally concur with the idea (as it is a stated goal) that pro wolf organizations plan to use this tool/reintroction of wolves to end hunting.

Since wolves cannot be delisted and since they are also not really endangered then I don't see how someone could call another a poacher if they took down a wolf. Especially if they do not know the entire circumstances. At any rate you can "what if" that idea until you are dead. It's kind of a name calling argument if you will.

You have a very smart friend   and you pretty much nailed it with the governments complete inability to manage these wolves properly.

[Ray]

Scott Fitkin Loves his job and his FIRST Wolves Pack in MANY MANY YEARS as CAREER and doesnt want to get order Wolf Deperation Control to removel Pack.

I don't know this fellow and I am not slandering him. Aside from him I know that there are those inside the government who see to it that their job security is well guarded and will find many ways to guard their careers. That's not an outlandish claim.