Want to build new rifle. Help!

[300wsm]

I am looking to buy a new rifle and have been looking at Blaser or H and S Precision.  These are both high quality and very expensive rifles.  Soooo, I started thinking about building my own rifle with top shelf best of the best parts.  Question #1, am I going to save much $ doing this?  Where do I start?  Any recommendations would be very appreciated.  I will stick with the 300 wsm as I have all the reloading stuff for this caliber and I also love the caliber.  I also want to go light as I do a lot hiking when I hunt.  Right now I am hunting with the Tikka T-3 light.

[Tony 270]

What are you looking to spend on the rifle itself?

[BlackRidge]

It seems like you already have a great rifle, good cal for it too

Going the custom route, you could save some money, but that all depends upon your supplier and the type/brand of rifle you want to go with.

High quality barrels can run anywhere from $200 - $500, actions/receivers/frames/parts/mags/trigger assemblies/etc all range depending upon the stuff mentioned above, and buttstocks all depend on how much your willing to spend.

In many ways, I'd say your probably better off buying a quality rifle OTS, but if your set on making one, its definitely the best way to get exactly what you want. I've always bought OTS, then improved them with aftermarket parts as I went along. That way you have spare parts just incase and if you ever decide to sell it later on, you can assemble it back to its stock form for whatever reason (selling parts/etc)

[FC]

Pick an action that you like, Remington 700, Savage 10 accu-trigger (short action) or whatever and look at stocks too to find one you like that fits the action you want with the barrel profile you want then go look at shilen barrels unless you have another preference. If you use the stock trigger for your rifle then you are done buying parts and if not...Keep in mind that Savage stuff is something you can bolt together yourself at home with under $100 in tools, others will require significantly more or have to be done by a gunsmith.

[Cascade_Sherpa]

Spend some time on some custom rifle makers websites to view and check out the specs on hunting rigs.

Google the following:

GA Precison

American Precision Arms,

Benchmark Barrels in Arlington,

http://www.rbrosrifles.com/  is a good one to look at and he's a member on this site so you know your hard earned dollars are going to a good place.

I think the rifles that HS precision makes are damn fine rifles, and you won't go wrong, but if you know exactly what you want a true custom smith can steer you down the path of components to get you there.

Good luck and be sure to post what you end up buying!

[AWS]

If you want light  and beautiful look no farther than a Kimber 84M Select.  You could never have one built like these for anywhere near the price.  Only down side it's only availlible in 308 or 338 Fed but then Light and 300 WSM don't go hand in hand anyway.

http://www.kimberamerica.com/products/rifles/84m/84m_select_grade/

Add a pound to 6lb 10 oz and you can get you 300WSM.

http://www.kimberamerica.com/products/rifles/8400/classic_select_grade/

AWS

[Bofire]

  I have done this, thought I'd have the "rifle of my dreams" ended up with a good rifle or two but not that much better than many others. There are so many choices and no perfect answers. It is fun tho. Right now out of 3 built, I own one custom, sold the others. I keep it cause it was a gift.
There are some very fine rifles for sale out there, many semi-custom builders. Think about what you want, in detail.
most accurate, prettiest, lightest, toughest, which cartridge, quick and handy or heavy and solid? that is just a start. Custom action, modified factory? Every feature has a draw back.
Good luck
Carl

[Tony 270]

Defensive Edge Rifles puts out some great stuff, and they offer a lightweight rifle too - not just their heavy canyon crossers.

[high country]

come up with a budget, weight, barrel lenght and twist and balance point......then we can get this money spent for you.

[300wsm]

I want a tack driver.  The H&S and the Blaser have absolutely great reviews, these where featured a few months back in Eastman's journal as great light weight hunting rifles.  Here is the Blaser review.  Blaser_R93_Eastmans_Hunting_Journal.pdf  The prices on them are steep.  $3K or more with options.  I'm sure I could build a top of the line rifle for less.  When I'm done I want a Ferrari of a rifle.  Yes I know a could kill something with a Chevy for many years but I work my arse off and enjoy the finer things when I can. 
Budget = $2,500  Caliber:  300wsm, as for everything else, I am open to suggestions and will be doing a lot of research.  Thanks for all the responses.

[Bob33]

I think these types of questions boil down to three primary variables: (1) how much can you afford to spend, (2) how heavy of a rifle can you live with, and (3) what level of accuracy do you demand?

[high country]

what bullet do you want to shoot? that is gonna be a factor on your twist.

[Tony 270]

http://www.defensiveedge.net/Custom%20Rifle/custom%20rifles.htm

[300wsm]

Right now I am hand loading  180 gr  Nosler accu bonds and 168 Barnes triple shock.  I really like the triple shocks and will most likely stick with those.

[jackelope]

rbros builds some incredibly cool rifles.
 
$2500 without glass?

[Wanttohuntmore]

I was wanting to do the same thing, but in a 338 Ultra Mag, with a heavier rifle, in the 11lb range.  I was going to build on REM 700 action, a 28" Pac Nor, and shoot the 300 grain Sierra's out of it.  Then I decided I already had some accurate rifles, just needed to spend more on the load developments.  I'm finding the heavier guns shoot better more consistently, but are a pain to lug around.  That Tikka you have is plenty nice, I almost would want something in a diff caliber. It will be hard to see improved accuracy with hunting bullets compared to the Tikka. 

Are you wanting just accuracy, or also a nice finished gun as well?  Will it wear wood or carbon?  Stainless or blued?  What weight will this gun be?  These will easily pinpoint what gun is available.

Good luck hunting this year!

[300wsm]

Don't get me wrong, I love my Tikka and it has killed (2) moose, (3) caribou, a wolf and and a deer in just a few short years that I've had it.  I WANT another gun, I don't NEED another gun.  My brother-in-law doesn't have a gun so it would be nice to have an extra gun that was dependable.  As for the caliber, I would entertain a different caliber but don't want this thread to turn into "what's the best caliber thread", lord only knows where that would go! 
As for the weight, I would like to keep it around the 7lbs mark.  To do this I will be going synthetic.
A couple have mentioned accuracy, I am not trying to join the 1000 yard club.  I just want a gun that I know will make a consistant group out to 300 yards.  I want the 1/4 group at 100 yards.  With my hand loads I should be able to accomplish that with most of the rifles out there.
I checked out the rbros site and they do make a beautiful gun but I think for that money I would just buy the H&S.  I do like the idea that Blackridge has to buy a quality rifle then improving it.  I've got deer season coming up in a couple weeks that my Tikka will do just fine with.  Then I have a Teanaway Bull muzzy bull tag in December.  I'm sure my wife will look at me crazy when I ask her to get me a barrel for Christmas but my plan is to have something put together by next spring/summer so I can break it in correctly by next deer season.  Thanks again for all the ideas.  I know there are numerous options out there.

[AWS]

1/4" groups with a light weight 300WSM, I hope you have really DEEP pockets.

AWS

[Cascade_Sherpa]

Check out 6mmBR's website. besides having an exhaustive amount of info, forums, etc. there is "gun of the week" gallery thats is easy to navigate to.  They've featured a couple of long range hunting rifles with ABS's carbon wrapped barrels at 26", coupled Rem 700 actions, and either manners or mcmillan stocks.  The rifles are still under 9lbs with glass in 300 wsm!  The one I'm thinking of was so freaking sexy that it haunted my dreams for a month.  And I believe it shot like a laser beam, grouping under 3/8".

[300wsm]

AWS,    Do you have something to contribute or did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed?  I am fairly knowledgeable about shooting and guns but have never built a rifle before, so I am trying to learn about what I can build vs buying a completed rifle.  I have at times got the 1/4" groups with my Tikka but not consistently so upgrading a few components I figured I could get there.  Maybe I'm dreaming??

[300wsm]

Thanks Cascade Sherpa!  I will check that out.

[AWS]

No, got up on the same side of the bed as always, just trying to save you some money, frustration and headaches.  I've got a whole safe full of customized guns, used to own a gun shop and shot rifle competitively.  You asked about building a light weight, 1/4" 300WSM, 9# isn't light.  I suggested some beautiful light weight semi-custom rifles that won't break the bank (being helpful).  If you can find a gunsmith or custom maker that will guarantee a consistant 1/4" center to center 5 shot group out of a light weight 300WSM the whole world should know about him.

AWS

[Alan K]

I just put together a .300 WSM myself.  I bought it in the Sako 85 Greywolf, and mounted a Leupold VX-7 3.5-14x50 on it.  I can't be happier, and it looks sharp as well.  Sako guarantees a 5 shot sub MOA group before it left the factory, but if it won't shoot that tight you send it to the factory and they'll fix it.

I'm not sure of the weight of the rifle/scope combo. I also have a bi-pod mounted on mine. 

[robescc]

You should really check out Benchmark Barrels.  I have had them build me 3 rifles and all shoot great.  My 300 win mag weighs in at 11lbs and shoots the lights out.  I just gt my 7wsm all set up and am in the process of breaking in the barrel and it is shooting 1/2moa at 100 yards and that is with a generic load. I can't say enough about them.  PM me if you need more info.

[yorketransport]

How about NULA? Not cheap, but they certainly qualify as light.

Andrew

[Wanttohuntmore]

If trying to go light, I'd almost look at a Kimber Montana, 308.... 5 1/4 lbs....  At least that's on my mind right now.....  Daydreaming at the moment.  Good luck 300WSM.  You can build it or buy it, either way, about the same price.  Those Tikka's are sure nice for the $$$ though, eh?

[haugenna]

Get another Tikka in 300 WSM.

The action on them is stiff.  Much stiffer than a 700 action.  The accuracy of a rifle starts with ignition and action stiffness.  

Pick up a match grade barrel, Hart, Benchmark, kreiger, etc etc.  Have the smith blue print the action install the barrel.  Put in a timney trigger in it and send it off to Lone Wolf for a glass bed job in one of their stocks and you have a dang nice ultralight gun for around 2200-2500 bucks.  Probably 1/3 MOA if you do your part.  A light gun can make a good shooter pull a couple.  I think 1/4 MOA is unrealistic.  

With all that being said.  I read that you want consistant groups at 300 yards.  You have that with the Tikka now.  Just work on some load development.  YOu mentioned your not a 1000 yard shooter.  I shoot quite often with my Tikka at paper out to 1000 and I wouldn't want to be standing out there.

Bullet selection, Nosler accubonds are a hunting bullet and are not know for extreme consistant accuracy.  Switch over to a Berger if you want accuracy.  Don't get me wrong Nosler Accubonds are great bullets just not "target style" bullets.  

Get serious about your reloading.  Start sorting brass, checking runout on loaded rounds and brass, turning necks, annealing necks, weighing bullets, weighing brass, measuring the bullets from ogive to base, work on seating depth and buy powder in large quantities for consitancy.    

The gun is one of many factors in accuracy.  Good luck with your quest and keep us all posted.  

Check out these 300 WSM's
http://www.mcwhorterrifles.com/GunRackPages/30Caliber/300wsm.html

watch their 550 video.

[high country]

  Sako guarantees a 5 shot sub MOA group before it left the factory, but if it won't shoot that tight you send it to the factory and they'll fix it.

only if you are the original owner who bought it from an authorized dealer within the last 2 years........otherwise they will tell you to send it to bolsa, who will tell you that they will look at it and then send you a bill for $100 to see your gun again. I know, I lived that nightmare once.

[Hyde]

Being a lefty, I have always been limited to what I could shoot.  I wanted a 338 Win Mag and finally scrounged up the dough to have one built.  In that case, there was no other option.  I could have bought a 340 Weatherby, but I didn't want that.  I wanted a 338 WM, (I think Browning made it in lefty back then, but I don't care for the action)  In my case, price wasn't a consideration.  Years later, I wanted a 375H&H.  I had a few options for an off the shelf lefty (Winchester, Browning) but I have always shot Remington 700's and so I had one built by Dan Cowen in Renton.  I could have bought 2 off the shelf Winchesters for what I paid to have that rifle built.  Then I wanted a classic 7x57 to take to Africa.  Custom rifle number 3, and another 2k in Dan's pocket.  If I were right handed, I would take a good look at the Kimber rifles.  BTW, I highly recommend Dan Cowen in Renton if you are looking to have a rifle built.  That's all he does.  And if you want to spring for a dandy English Walnut stock, he's the man.  There's another guy out in Covington that I hear is awesome too (someone will know his name). 

Here's one thought... what if you take an off the shelf model that you like (in your 300 WSM of course) and then have it restocked with a McMillen, or whatever, and have it blueprinted, etc.  That would probably get you as close to your goal for the least amount.  Of course... it won't be as fun.

[AWS]

haugenna


That link was great, I was suprised at how light they were, good find, that should help 300WSM out.

AWS

[docsven]

Second what Hyde said.  You can save money building something and get a lot of what you want but you won't necessarily get that value back out of it.  So if you want to build one just to build one and don't have to justify the cost, build your own.

[300wsm]

I'm liking the idea of taking an off the shelf gun and customizing it.  Question, what is "blue printing"?  Hyde, do you have Dan Cowen's #,  I would like to at the least talk to him.  After doing some research, I see I would need a 40 pound gun to get my 1/4" MOA, but 1/2" to 3/8" will be obtainable with the right loads/bullets/gun. 
Now that I'm day dreaming, maybe my first project will be changing out the barrel and stock on my Tikka.  I'm assuming it will take a gun smith to fit the barrel correctly???  The reviews on the Benchmark barrels are great.  robescc, p.m. sent.  What is a good stock?  I like the olive/black that H&S have.  Thanks again for all the help.

[haugenna]

Mcmillan edge or lone wolf carbon fiber. Great stocks.

[Tony 270]

I'm liking the idea of taking an off the shelf gun and customizing it.  Question, what is "blue printing"?  Hyde, do you have Dan Cowen's #,  I would like to at the least talk to him.  After doing some research, I see I would need a 40 pound gun to get my 1/4" MOA, but 1/2" to 3/8" will be obtainable with the right loads/bullets/gun. 

Like I said, a friend has the Defensive Edge Canyon Rifle and his test target measured 0.117 inches @ 100 yards. Not 40lbs either, about 13. Thing is crazy accurate at long range too.

[Lightning_Rider]

I have a buddy who had a Mcwhorter rifle built and i've never seen anything as accurate in my life, but they come at a great price too.

[high country]

if you want to build a gun that will ring the bell at huge distances for a fair price, it is tough to beat pacnors prices. send them an action and have it trued and barreled.....odds are good it will go very much sub moa. I have a gre-tan and a bisen both shoot well under an inch.  do not forget you live near jim cloward who is quite famous for building money winning rifles.

[rbros]

I'm liking the idea of taking an off the shelf gun and customizing it.  Question, what is "blue printing"?  Hyde, do you have Dan Cowen's #,  I would like to at the least talk to him.  After doing some research, I see I would need a 40 pound gun to get my 1/4" MOA, but 1/2" to 3/8" will be obtainable with the right loads/bullets/gun. 

Like I said, a friend has the Defensive Edge Canyon Rifle and his test target measured 0.117 inches @ 100 yards. Not 40lbs either, about 13. Thing is crazy accurate at long range too.

Shawn builds a good rifle and is a good friend of mine as well.

  You don't need a 40lb rifle to shoot a 1/4-1/2moa groups.  I have built several 8lb and up that will do it.  I will be honest, the number of people that are capable of shooting a 1/4moa group consistently is pretty small.  I compete and shoot close to 20k rounds a year, and I have days that 1/2moa is about it.  I have other days that are smaller...338 Edge group at 300yds measures .403" outside to outside....thats .065" ctc folks.  That particular rifle will shoot in the .1's and .2' pretty consistently and weighs 13lbs.  My lighter weight rifle weighs 10lbs with a scope and shoot about the same size groups in 7 wsm.  Most of the 7-8lb rifles that I have built will print 1/2moa or less, a guy just has to pay more attention to form when shooting them.  Good barrels, machining, loading, and most importantly the shooter goes along ways.  Pic components of good quality, has them assembled properly and you won't be sorry.

[FC]

I will be honest, the number of people that are capable of shooting a 1/4moa group consistently is pretty small. 

You are being extremely modest, 1 MOA is unattainable for the majority of shooters, a TRUE 1/4 MOA shooter is extremely uncommon.

[coachcw]

wow you guys are very knowegleble here. I don't shoot enough to get those groups . I love to shoot differnt angles and elevations , cross winds and such . If your a snipper/ hunter i'd recomend that you get another tika and make both guns the same practice in the field and have one for a back up . my question is what happens when your 3k 1/4 moa riffle is put into a real life situation seems to me that the guy behind the gun makes the difference more than the gun does.

[rbros]

wow you guys are very knowegleble here. I don't shoot enough to get those groups . I love to shoot differnt angles and elevations , cross winds and such . If your a snipper/ hunter i'd recomend that you get another tika and make both guns the same practice in the field and have one for a back up . my question is what happens when your 3k 1/4 moa riffle is put into a real life situation seems to me that the guy behind the gun makes the difference more than the gun does.

In all situations, the shooter makes a difference.  An accurate rifle to start with builds confidence, but if you don't shoot well, or get nervous, then it doesn't do any good at all.  Practice is the key.  Most guys are lucky to shoot 50-100 rounds a year through their hunting rifles.  If you practice, have an accurate rifle...when put into real life situation, your results will generally be pretty good.

[300wsm]

RBROS, I agree with you 100%.  Hitting the range today with some family that I hunt with each year.  They are usually shooting for the first time of the year and are happy to hit the target at 100 yards.  I'm hitting it for the 12th or 13th time and getting mad when I don't group them in a golf ball.   I think if I build a great rifle, get a lot of rounds through it, I can achieve what I want and feel great about going hunting and knowing I won't miss an opportunity due to a lack of practice.
I've decided I will keep my Tikka like it is because it has done exactly what I have needed to do.  I talked to a buddies dad that made a 270 wsm for deer and pronghorn.  I think I'll go that route so I don't have a redundancy in calibers.  His gun is light and shoots flat.  I'll just have to add that caliber to my reloading bench.  Good luck to anyone going after deer this weekend! 
I'll post what I end up with.  Maybe there should be a post on the steps it take to build a rifle???  If I have time maybe I'll start that post when I begin??  I'll probable start this project after around Christmas after my muzzy bull hunt.

[haugenna]

300WSM,

I will say this, the rifle is one of 3 components in accuracy.  Too many people put it all on the rifle.  Spend some of that money on measuring tools, comp dies, and case prep tools and you will turn that gun into 1/2 MOA.

The other two are, shooter and precise reloads.

[300wsm]

Here's what I ended up with.  I decided that my 300wsm Tikka was just fine for bigger game, so I went with a 257 Weatherby.  Found a guy on Gunbroker that builds a clone of the Alaska Ti.  It has the 26" barrel that was frozen(forget the term crono-something), I also had the stainless barrel Cerakoted.  Had them put a Jewel trigger set at 2.5 lbs. and put a Bell and Carlson olive w/ blk spider web to finish it off.  They send you a target that shows it is a Sub MOA gun before they even ship it.  Redhawk Rifles is the name of the dealer.  Great to work with and they make a great looking gun.  They are also a dealer of Zeiss.  I put a 4x14x42AO to top it off.  The price of the scope beat Cabelas by $160.  Now I need to find some yotes to break it in on.  Next year the deer are in for a deadly surprise!

[ribka]

Here's what I ended up with.  I decided that my 300wsm Tikka was just fine for bigger game, so I went with a 257 Weatherby.  Found a guy on Gunbroker that builds a clone of the Alaska Ti.  It has the 26" barrel that was frozen(forget the term crono-something), I also had the stainless barrel Cerakoted.  Had them put a Jewel trigger set at 2.5 lbs. and put a Bell and Carlson olive w/ blk spider web to finish it off.  They send you a target that shows it is a Sub MOA gun before they even ship it.  Redhawk Rifles is the name of the dealer.  Great to work with and they make a great looking gun.  They are also a dealer of Zeiss.  I put a 4x14x42AO to top it off.  The price of the scope beat Cabelas by $160.  Now I need to find some yotes to break it in on.  Next year the deer are in for a deadly surprise!

what did you end up paying for the build?

[littletoes]

wow you guys are very knowegleble here. I don't shoot enough to get those groups . I love to shoot differnt angles and elevations , cross winds and such . If your a snipper/ hunter i'd recomend that you get another tika and make both guns the same practice in the field and have one for a back up . my question is what happens when your 3k 1/4 moa riffle is put into a real life situation seems to me that the guy behind the gun makes the difference more than the gun does.

In all situations, the shooter makes a difference.  An accurate rifle to start with builds confidence, but if you don't shoot well, or get nervous, then it doesn't do any good at all.  Practice is the key.  Most guys are lucky to shoot 50-100 rounds a year through their hunting rifles.  If you practice, have an accurate rifle...when put into real life situation, your results will generally be pretty good.

THIS being said by one of the top Shooters in the Nation, at a Tactical Level, with Rifles He builds, Himself.  I've watched him shoot on several occasions, and win.

[Wanttohuntmore]

What are you planning on feeding the 257? 

[300wsm]

What are you planning on feeding the 257? 

I got some Reloader 22 and have loaded 64 gr. behind a 100 gr Barnes TSX and also 90 gr. Nosler BT.  Haven't shot it enough yet.  I was thinking the TSX for deer and the BT for yotes or other varmin. 

[elkspert]

Love that 257 weatherby caliber.