NO bulls seen up on colockum period.

[colockumelk]

I have hunted the Colockum for the last 15 years....my thoughts on 2010:  About average.

I would have tagged out multiple days if not for the true spike rule, I saw a couple branched bulls, and scoped 7 two points on one morning.  I would completely disagree with anyone saying there was a lack of bulls, but would definitely say it was a low year for true spikes (which probably could be attributed to a good grass year).  Most encouraging was the number of calves that I saw.  Most discouraging was the 2 dead, bloated 1x2's that I came across.

I am 100% behind changing management strategies to improve recruitment, but don't understand WDFW logic behind choosing a strategy that has no scientific backup behind it.  Do I think the true spike rule is positively impacting the Colockum herd?  Absolutely not. 

I have said this before and will say it again....What is the ONLY strategy that will increase recruitment (multiple studies have shown this) and also (at least partially) address some tribal harvest--road closures and winter closure.  Monster Bull is not going to shoot bulls where he cannot drive.  I would be behind a permit system too, but only if they addressed some road closures and a winter closure.

Couldn't agree more.  If they closed down alot of the roads and made the area around the Coffin Refuge a "Wilderness Area" meaning no roads within 3 miles than that would go ALONG WAY!  Anyone who doesn't believe so is not playing with a full deck.  Unfortunately many do not support road closures.  The Kittitas Valley Fiel and Stream Club absolutely does not support road closures in any way. 

[400out]

should have bugled. would have been funny to see their reaction to find you with a call

Bad Idea up there! good way to find a hole in your hat 

[Elkaholic daWg]

Couldn't agree more.  If they closed down alot of the roads and made the area around the Coffin Refuge a "Wilderness Area" meaning no roads within 3 miles than that would go ALONG WAY!  Anyone who doesn't believe so is not playing with a full deck.  Unfortunately many do not support road closures.  The Kittitas Valley Field and Stream Club absolutely does not support road closures in any way.  

youth eletism eh?
 Now I know that I am not playing with a full deck Thank You!
 wilderness area?.... Colockumelk every time I think about agreeing with your ideas-you come up with a statement like that! Maybe Patty Murray and Rick Larsen could help you out on that. Oh wait ,it's state land not federal,but I am sure they and their granola  bunch would love to take over and insert federal powers and make it just that! I could see closing some roads on the Eburg side, but the north end has none left to close. there are only 2 accesses legally.

Sorry but that is a sore subject here since I am what many would consider an old fart who has been hunting the colockum since 1965 and have seen NOTHING like we are seeing now. There were more roads open with more hunters and it was any bull.. There was a very noticeable difference with many camps empty this year in the Naneum Mission, and Quilomene  units that we saw. Dense fog opening day, fog and rain two days later, and a noticeable decline in hunters. I would say bull recruitment should be great this year as non native hunters are concerned.
 What I will say is I saw areas that looked like a graveyard of animals killed in August or September in an area BEHIND the " No Unauthorized vehicles beyond........." by at least a quarter mile.(with vehicle track evidence. I saw 7 different deer carcasses laying in  3 groups also. looking a couple months old.

[colockumelk]

Elk-Dawg I didn't mean make the Colockum a wilderness area.  You misunderstood me.  I meant that instead of having roads that basically circle the wildlife refuge and therefore having camps that ring that thing.  Close off all the roads around it so that the closest you can get on a motorized vehicle is at least a mile.  that is what I meant.  Because this is what happens to the spikes on the refuge.  Basically by the time that rifle season starts about 2/3 of the elk herd is on or very near the refuge. So its very compact.  Therefore since the spikes are at the bottom of the ladder they get run off the refuge and kind of hang around until they get shot.  Every study I have found or looked up supports this.  This is why the refuge does not help out with spike recruitment. 

And most of what I meant by closing down roads as the ones that are already closed.  But instead of expecting people to follow the law and not drive passed the red signs that say "don't drive passed here" (not literally) actually physically close it.  Put up a gate and don't give the key to anybody.  Put in tank traps.  Something to keep people out.  yes there will always be an A-Hole that will get around the gate or whatever.  But the majority of people wont.  And heres a novel idea why don't they significantly increase the penalty for road trespassing?  Basically before the WDFW and DNR etc starts enacting more closures etc how about they actually ENFORCE the current ones.  That is what I meant. I'm sorry I was so vague. 

How about next time you don't get so bent out of shape and call me a hippy and "youth elitism" Next time make a valid point.  Instead of going straight to name calling. 
And if you did your research EVERY SINGLE study done in regards to road access/elk or deer survival has shown that road access has a very large impact on buck/bull survival.  Especially since it keeps the poachers out.  So here's my challenge to you.  Find me a study done that shows road access has NO effect on buck/bull survival.  I will be all ears I promise. 

[Elkaholic daWg]

 I also (if you remember from my earlier posts) have a disabled hunting partner. 

 Seemed to me that the only consistent shooting that we heard in the later season was coming from the south side near the reserve where there is no road for a boundary.

[KNOPHISH]

Talked to a LEO on Wed. & he said there was 9 1x2 poached. That's alot of wasted meat. Nor sure if they take em for the food banks or whatever as last year I saw a poached 3 point lay by the road for days.

[halflife65]

I also (if you remember from my earlier posts) have a disabled hunting partner. 

 Seemed to me that the only consistent shooting that we heard in the later season was coming from the south side near the reserve where there is no road for a boundary.

I have to say that I'm in agreement with ColockumElk on this.  If there were more shots (and that just may have been your experience but maybe was the case) it may indicate that the elk went to a roadless place to get away from people.  Since it is a (relatively) small area, guys that were willing to walk into the area may have a better chance because the were concentrated to try to get away from the roads.  However, if there was not road access everywhere else, maybe they wouldn't concentrate into a small area where guys can catch up to them.

By the way, I don't have any problem with road access for disabled hunters.  The problem is that there are roads everywhere up there and, because they are just wide open, even if people aren't supposed to drive on them, people do.  It's the enormous amounts of roads vs. access vs. conservation of elk (and other stuff, such as private lands, native hunting, timber harvest, off-roading, snowmobiling, other non-hunting activities,  etc.).  Right now, it seems that it's pretty heavily skewed toward too many roads, though.

Colockum, you're a hippy.

[colockumelk]

God Bless Obama, Patty Murray, Christine Gregoire, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Ried,    Sorry the I couldn't go on like that any longer  

Elkaholic daWG I know that you hunt with a disabled hunting partner.  I don't see how physically closing the already closed roads has anything to do with your partner.  So I take it you havn't found any proof that road access doesn't have an effect on herd numbers I take it.    

Does anybody have any granola I can have.  Just know it has to be Organic    

[halflife65]

 

[snowmojim]

Well, while many enjoyed great hunting over the last four years, our camp has seen little to nothing. In fact our last bull was a legal 1x2 if that gives any indication. This year was our turn, three true spikes from three different canyons by 10:00am opening morning, our best year EVER! One herd had five bulls from 2x2 - 6x6. I personalty saw two legal spikes Sunday while packing out our meat. On Sunday afternoon we had an amazing encounter with the largest 6x6 I have ever seen, bedded behind our camp. Yes there were elk in Colockum this year, just not in the normal locations.

Unfortunately, we also ran into a posting on our access road informing us of a pending road closure next year. This closure would extend our morning hike from 2mi presently to almost 5mi. This would effectively close the older guys out of our hunting area. After four generations camping at this location, approximately 55yrs now, we are extremely disappointed.

[Buckrub]

Been gone for while.... See Clockum still beating the permit eastside..

I would like to see a change as well, the current system is destroying the elk herd.
The states idea of general season spike to bring a 10 to 1 bull ratio is flawed and never will work unless they keep handing out cow permits taking the entire herd numbers down.

Interesting that most of the state is managed by antler restriction deer and elk but eastside elk areas remain spike only.

Talking with the biologists in that area I get the sense of someone not wanting to say uncle..... how long does the hunter and the state destroy a viable economic renewable resource before they change? When it must be shut down totally?

Permit only sounds good in theory but the state can't manage it properly currently.... I still vote antler restriction...5 point or better general season for everybody. Works for W. WA. and other states.

PS... I bowhunt wetside so I have no dog in the fight other than watching an elk herd destroyed.

[colockumelk]

Been gone for while.... See Clockum still beating the permit eastside..

I would like to see a change as well, the current system is destroying the elk herd.
The states idea of general season spike to bring a 10 to 1 bull ratio is flawed and never will work unless they keep handing out cow permits taking the entire herd numbers down.

Interesting that most of the state is managed by antler restriction deer and elk but eastside elk areas remain spike only.

Talking with the biologists in that area I get the sense of someone not wanting to say uncle..... how long does the hunter and the state destroy a viable economic renewable resource before they change? When it must be shut down totally?

Nah just the Colockum.  The debate on the whole east side was just for fun.  The Colockum seriously though does need it though.  Funny you mention waiting till someone screams UNCLE!!!!  Alot of people think that "oh any year the herd will turnaround"  Wake up WDFW, Wake up people.  It hasn't worked for the last 16 years why would it work now.  As far as why the Colockum has different antler restrictions than the west side is because of the terrain.  Those bulls can hide over on the west side where its thick and most roads are closed to vehicles because of timber company land.  But in the Colockum its REALLY, REALLY REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLYY Open.  So the bulls wouldnt be able to hide.  Unfortunately if it went to 5pt min all the 6 point bulls would get smoked.  Although there would be a ton of rag horns running around.  There's just oo many roads and not enough cover for the3m to survive. 

Although I will say this, it couldn't be any worse than spike only.  Because obviously that hasn't worked. 

[WSU]

Has anyone read in research about going to the opposite end of the spectrum regarding point restrictions, say 6 point minimum?  I'm not sure what effect it would have on the overall number of large bulls, but it would certainly increase the age class between yearling and mature. 

[colockumelk]

Yeah it kind of intrigued me too.  I think on the one hand it would slightly increase the number of total bulls in the Colockum (Instead of killing them as spikes we kill them as mature 6x's) But on the other hand I think for the most part there wouldn't be any LARGE bulls left because they'd all get killed.  But I hate to admit this but I think it would be a better solution to what currently happens in the Colockum.

BUT......  and fore every action theres always a RE-action.  If the Colockum went to 5pt minimum so would the rest of the east-side.  Because if ONLY the Colockum went to 5pt or 6pt mimimum then EVERYONE would hunt the Colockum and there definately wouldnt be any escapement. 

Although last year me and Buck Rub debated the hell out of this topic and I REALLY, REALLY was against it and thought Buck Rub was straight up dumb as a board  now that I've given it some more thought I think it's actually plausible and should maybe be given a chance.  Thought anyone???

[colockumelk]

I decided that this topic needed its own post.  So I made one.