Felt recoil question

[mebco09]

For all you math guys out there...

I was at the range with my 2 rifles getting ready this year.  Both rifles are Ruger M77 Mk II. 

One is 30-06- lightweight, 22 inch barrel.  Factory stock.  Loaded weight is slightly under 7 lbs.  165 grain bullet.   

The second is a .338 win mag.  24 inch bull barrel with houge overmolded synthetic stock.  Loaded weight is 9 lbs. 210 grain bullet.

I fired 3, 3 shot groups with each rifle.  The 30-06 feels like it kicks much harder than the .338.  Is this all in my head?  Can someone calculate the recoil energy? 

Thanks in advance.

[Bob33]

An exact answer would depend on the powder charge and velocity of each load.  My guess is that the difference in actual recoil is small enough that the difference in felt recoil is due more to the characteristics of each stock.

[FC]

Has to be the stock. http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm The difference in recoil energy is huge, the 338 should have much more felt recoil.

[yorketransport]

I bet it's a combination of push -vs- jab recoil and stock design. The light weight 30-06 may have a higher recoil velocity giving the recoil more of a "jab" feel. The 338 is moving a little slower and has more of a push. I actually find the 375 Ruger more pleasant to shoot than a similar rifle in 300 Win Mag for this reason. I don't mind getting pushed, but I don't like getting jabbed. Andrew

[JackOfAllTrades]

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

Comb/drop of stock at the heal will also affect how the recoil is felt.

-Steve

[rock]

with that heavy of a gun and that big of a charge wouldnt it kick more like a shotgun

[Bob33]

Has to be the stock. http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm The difference in recoil energy is huge, the 338 should have much more felt recoil.

The difference depends on the loads.  Compute them for yourself using your variables.
http://kwk.us/recoil.html

[demontang]

The stock and weight play a major role in felt recoil. My 9lb 338 win shooting a 200gr bullet around 3000 was easier to shoot then my friends 8lb 308 shooting 165gr factory rounds .

[mebco09]

Thanks for the responses.   Truth is that I may retire the .30-06 and go .338 exclusively.  The only problem is the cost of the ammo, and 2 extra pounds.

[burke1122]

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction; that is one of the physical laws of our universe. This means that the momentum of a rifle's reaction will exactly equal the momentum of the bullet and powder gasses ejected from the barrel. We call that reaction recoil or "kick. While recoil energy determines how hard the blow to the shoulder feels, recoil velocity determines how abrupt the blow to the shoulder feels. My subjective impression is that, with a well designed stock, recoil velocity above about 10 fps begins to feel like a sharp rap on the shoulder rather than an abrupt push.
 
However, perceived recoil, what the shooter feels, is a highly subjective. It is influenced by many factors. One of the most important of these is the fit and shape of the rifle stock. A good recoil pad can help soften the blow to the shooter's shoulder. Gas-operated semi-automatic actions reduce apparent recoil by spreading it over a longer period of time. These sorts of things cannot be accounted for in a recoil table. Also, please understand that there are dozens of loads for any given bullet weight in any cartridge that will produce the same velocity, but a different amount of recoil. So the figures in any recoil table should be taken as approximate.

Hope this help out.



Cartridge (Wb@MV)                          Rifle Weight        Recoil energy        Recoil velocity


.270 Win.           (130 at 3140)           8.0                   16.5                    n/a
.270 Win.           (140 at 3000)           8.0                   17.1                    11.7
.270 Win.           (150 at 2900)           8.0                   17.0                    11.7
.270 WSM          (130 at 3275)           8.0                   18.7                    12.3
.270 WSM          (150 at 3000)           8.0                   18.9                    12.3
.270 Wby. Mag.  (130 at 3375)           9.0                    21.0                   12.3
.270 Wby. Mag.  (150 at 3000)           9.25                  17.8                    11.1
7mm Rem. SAUM (160 at 2931)           8.0                    21.5                    13.2
7mm WSM         (140 at 3200)           8.0                    20.7                     12.9
7mm WSM         (160 at 3000)           8.0                    21.9                     13.3
7mm Rem. Mag. (139 at 3100)            9.0                    19.3                     11.8
7mm Rem. Mag. (150 at 3100)            8.5                    19.2                     12.1
7mm Rem. Mag. (160 at 2950)            9.0                    20.3                     12.0
7mm Rem. Mag. (175 at 2870)            9.0                    21.7                     12.5
7mm Wby. Mag. (140 at 3300)            9.25                  19.5                     11.7
7mm Wby. Mag. (160 at 3200)            9.0                    25.6                     13.5
7mm STW         (160 at 3185)            8.5                    27.9                     14.6
7mm Ultra Mag. (140 at 3425)             8.5                    25.3                     n/a
7mm Ultra Mag. (160 at 3200)             8.5                    29.4                     n/a
.308 Marlin Express (160 at 2660)        8.0                   13.4                    10.4
.308 Win.          (150 at 2800)            7.5                   15.8                    11.7
.308 Win.          (165 at 2700)            7.5                   18.1                    12.5
.308 Win.          (180 at 2610)            8.0                   17.5                    11.9
.30-06 Spfd.      (150 at 2910)            8.0                   17.6                    11.9
.30-06 Spfd.      (165 at 2900)            8.0                   20.1                    12.7
.30-06 Spfd.      (180 at 2700)            8.0                   20.3                    12.8

[Bscman]

Don't entirely trust those recoil charts, either.

I've had 30-30 lever action's become more bothersome in fewer rounds than some much, MUCH larger calibers. Stock design, recoil pad, recoil VELOCITY, etc. all play a role in how the recoil is felt.

[FC]

The difference depends on the loads.  Compute them for yourself using your variables.
http://kwk.us/recoil.html

Cool little program there but from what I can see you would have to load the 338 pretty light for it to really compare. Maybe I'm setting it up wrong?

[Shootmoore]

I wonder if it's something with the stock design of the M77 MKII?  I've got one in .270, and that thing is horrible to shoot.  My dad is by no means a smaller guy, and even after he shoots it he just say's "there is something wrong with that gun".    Honestly, I hate the thing, and after shooting a couple boxes of shells through it I started to develop a flinch and pull shots.   It now sits in the safe, where it will most likely stay until the day I sell it or pass it down.

My brother had the same gun in the featherweight version.  Kicked like a mule on crack!  About 2 shots was all I was good fore before no more!  And I have put 100's of rounds of buck and slug downrange in 1 day in training.

We got him a sims recoil pad for it and its amazing the difference, you may try that.

Shootmoore

[Shootmoore]

I wonder if it's something with the stock design of the M77 MKII?  I've got one in .270, and that thing is horrible to shoot.  My dad is by no means a smaller guy, and even after he shoots it he just say's "there is something wrong with that gun".    Honestly, I hate the thing, and after shooting a couple boxes of shells through it I started to develop a flinch and pull shots.   It now sits in the safe, where it will most likely stay until the day I sell it or pass it down.

My brother had the same gun in the featherweight version.  Kicked like a mule on crack!  About 2 shots was all I was good fore before no more!  And I have put 100's of rounds of buck and slug downrange in 1 day in training.

We got him a sims recoil pad for it and its amazing the difference, you may try that.

Shootmoore

I believe mine is the lightweight version as well (the black painted stock forend). 

I had some problems with my scope at one time, and actually shot a box and a half of ammuniton in one afternoon trying to figure out the issue.  I've hated that rifle ever since.

With my Tikka 6.5 X 55 I'll actually sit down and put some rounds through it because it's enjoyable (nice crisp trigger, and almost no recoil).  With that Ruger, I would shoot to check zero and then back in the case it went. 

You should really try that sims pad, it really made a difference from an "unshootible" gun to one that was very managable.  My brother never could understand why he shot so poorly with that rifle, well it was because he was not only flinching but I think he was cringing it terror waiting for the kick to send shockwaves of pain through his shoulder.  The gun is now actually pleasent to shoot and his accuracy improved from just barelly acceptible to hunt to very good.  Pretty cheap investment to make a dust collector into a shooter.

Shootmoore

[demontang]

I put a limb saver on my 338win and its a fun to sit down at the range and put 50rds down the tube now. granted it is almost a all day thing to do cause I let the barrel cool, but I dont hurt at all after it.