African Safari 2012 - The update thread

[Rob]

Dad has decided he would like to get a larger bore gun for his hunt.  I posted this in the classifieds, but thought I'd list it here too.

Not looking for an expensive double or fancy bolt gun. CZ 550 Magnum would be preferred, but a Win Model 70 would be good too.

If you have a gun that you would like to sell that fits the following criteria, please drop me a PM

Must have:
-Cartridge: 416 Rigby
-Bolt gun with Mauser style extractor
-Multi cartridge capacity (i.e. not a single shot)

Nice to have
-Bedded
-Cross bolts
-Wood stock

I have also listed this in the Accurate Reloading forum as well as Seattle Guns.net.

[Rob]

So I am re-reading “the perfect Shot” by Kevin Doctari
https://www.safaripress.com/product.php?productid=434&cat=0&page=1

The first 40 or so pages offers some of the best reading I have come across in terms of layman level discussion of ballistics as they pertain to hunting large game.

I am sure that what follows is a penetrating insight into the obvious for everyone else, but it clarified some things for me so I thought I’d share.

With Large game, especially African game, penetration is king.  You want a bullet that you know will go through thick hides, heavy bones, and still reach the boiler room.  I know I often look at energy when trying to compare different bullets for different applications-I have always known that this was not the best gauge, but I have not known why, nor have I known what other stats to use to help make such a decision.  In the book, Kevin made the statement that Muzzle energy means very little when it comes to making such a decision and then provided some interesting insights.

When selecting a cartridge, he looks at three variables:
•   Muzzle energy
•   Sectional Density
•   Momentum
To calculate these variables he uses Caliber, bullet weight and velocity

To illustrate his point, he did an interesting compare.  (I am not using his #’s as I don’t have his book here in front of me, although I do have all his formulas used to calculate the #’s.)  He took three cartridges in typical bullet weights and plugged in velocities such that all the bullets had similar muzzle energy.  The rifles he used were a 30.06 Springfield, a 375 HH and a fictitious gun he called the 22 LR “super”.   Here are the stats:

22 LR Super (again, this is a fake gun for illustrative purposes)
•   40 grain bullet, .224 caliber, traveling 6,600 FPS.

30.06 Springfield
•   220 grain bullet, .308 caliber, traveling 2,800 FPS

375 HH
•   300 grain bullet, .375 Caliber, traveling 2400 FPS.

These velocity/bullet weight combos yielded very similar Muzzle energy #’s:
•   22 LR Super 3,870 Ft/lbs
•   30.06 3,831 Ft/lbs
•   375 HH 3,838 Ft/Lbs

The question is, what would you rather shoot a charging Cape Buff with to get max penetration?  I jump right to the 375 HH, but why?  If I look at Muzzle energy alone, the answer would be, they are all the same. 

Kevin next calculated Momentum and Sectional density.
•   Sectional Density = Bullet Weight in Lbs/(Caliber squared)
      o         Sample:  for 30.06 SD= ((220/7000)/(.308*.308)) = .331
•   Momentum = (Bullet Weight * Velocity)/7000 Note:  the 7000 is to convert grains to pounds
      o         Sample for 30.06 = (220*2800)/7000 = 88.0

                             30.06   375 HH   .22 LR Super
Bullet Weight                220   300   40
Caliber                        0.308   0.375   0.224
Velocity                       2800   2400   6600
            
Sectional Density                0.331   0.305   0.114
Muzzle Energy (ft/lbs)   3831   3838   3870
Momentum Value (lb/FPS)   88.0   102.9   37.7

(The larger the momentum and Sectional Density #’s, the better the penetration.)

Now we are getting into how I am interpreting these #’s so I may be off. 

I am assuming the following:
•   Must be for Solids as I would assume penetration would be reduced for a bullet that expands
•   Must assume that the bullet retains 100% of its weight
•   Assumes penetration begins at the muzzle – one would need to lower the Velocity #’s to the down range distance that penetration begins.

So if I read this correctly, even though the SD on the 30.06 is the best (~9% greater than the 375 HH) and the Muz energy is about equal, the 375 HH shooting a heavier bullet at a slower speed will provide better penetration due to a momentum value that is 14% greater.  (i.e. it is harder to stop so it goes further). 

Oh yeah, and the “super” 22LR has pathetic penetration performance in spite of roughly equal muzzle energy, so it is “right out”

So my question would be, if the momentum value is greater for the 375 HH by 14%, does that mean that it will penetrate 14% deeper?  I’d love to see a table that translates a momentum value into inches of penetration in ballistics gel.

By the way, when looking at the 300 WM vs 338 WM, the 338 WM comes out on top.  I fudged the #’s such that the muzzle energy was roughly = between the two for an apples to apples compare.
               300 Win Mag   338 WM
Bullet Weight                  180                225
Caliber                              0.308               0.338
Velocity                              2950              2600
        
Sectional Density               0.271       0.281
Muzzle Energy (ft/lbs)       3479       3378
Momentum Value (lb/FPS)       75.9        83.6

Anyway, I found this an interesting way to get hard #’s that back up what we have been saying on this topic. 

[Rob]

Couple more updates:

1.    I think my dad will have his 416 Rigby (cz550) in hand by this weekend.  He is going to go look at it while in San Antonio and assuming it is as advertised, I expect he will buy it.  I posted a “rifle wanted” ad on the AR forum and got about a dozen replies.  What did people do before the internet???
2.   I have been playing with the 450 Dakota (AKA Bethany) to get use to the recoil.  I have now put around 70 or so rounds through her.  She really packs a whack, but I really enjoy shooting it.  I am about to pre-order a new scope for it.  The VX6 1-6x24 with a German #4 reticle.  I’ll get QD rings for it as well.  I’ll probably get that ordered by end of the week, with a ship date sometime by the end of the year.  Can’t wait.
3.   A big bore shoot has been scheduled in Libby Montana.  It sounds like a LOT of fun.  I signed up for it.  The shooting scenarios are at the end of this post.  My only concern is, can I shoot 25-30 rounds through Bethany in a row as I work through the course??  My record to date is 13 over an hour or so.  I am considering a sissy pad.  Link: http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/7401032851
4.   I am arranging to buy a 505 Gibbs.  Why?  I have no idea.  It just looks like a really fun big bore to have.  I do not expect to take it to Africa this time, but if I find myself on an elephant trip someday, this would probably be the rifle.  I pick it up at the big Bore shoot in August.  I have all the reloading bits I need on order.  I need to pick up some powder and I’ll be good to go!  Can’t wait to try it out!

The Course of fire:
1 “Sight in at camp”, Standing on your hind legs, fire 2 shots on paper target at 40 yards, reload, fire 1 more shot.
2 “Camp meat” Standing , shoot 2 one gallon water jug “guineas” on ground at 25 and 30 yards for dinner.
3 “Crossing Buffalo” Standing, fire 2 shots at 25 yard moving buff, move forward 5 yards, reload 1 round then fire a “finisher” into the water jug “ buffalo heart” on ground at 20 yards.
4. “Poachers” Fire two shots at poachers (balloon heads on 5’ pvc pipe stands) at 20 and 30 yards, move forward 5 yards to the land rover (table), reload, kneel to take cover and fire 1 round at third poacher at 50 yards, can use table as rest.
5 “Charging Lion” From 25yds, on the whistle, Lion starts and shooter takes a knee, 2 rounds to chest target.
6 “Sleeping Crocodile” 1 or 2 shots at a ten foot “croc” with water jug brain, 100yards, we provide shooting sticks.
7 “Charging Buffalo” On the whistle, 25 yard buffalo starts toward shooter, 2 rounds to chest target.
8 “Baboons in Camp, shoot quick” Two “babloons” on short pvc pipe at 20yds, 2 more at 25yds, fire 2rds, reload, fire 2 rds.
9 “Save the PH” With empty rifle ,walk/jog/run forward 20 yards, load 2 rounds and fire at the 5 yard buffalo stomping the PH.
10 “Pandemonium” 1rd at 25 yard crossing buff, 1rd at charging buff(started from 30yds on your 1st shot), reload, fire 1 more round at still charging buff.
Life size moving targets will be powered by volunteer human beings pulling a rope at a brisk walk

[h20hunter]

I especially like the save the ph scenario. Are you allowed to yell certain things while killing the buff? Example: I will always love you Stefan!  or maybe "I'll save you my muse!" You know, to make it more macho.

I certainly hope you have the hunt you are expecting. After all this we will all be dying to see some pics of you trip.

[Rob]

I especially like the save the ph scenario. Are you allowed to yell certain things while killing the buff? Example: I will always love you Stefan!  or maybe "I'll save you my muse!" You know, to make it more macho.

I certainly hope you have the hunt you are expecting. After all this we will all be dying to see some pics of you trip.

OK, I love that idea...  I'll have to think of something witty to say.

Can't wait to have photos to post!  This time 15 months from now I'll be on the trip!

[lhrbull]

when are leaving 2011 or2012

[Rob]

We will fly out on September 29th 2012.  Only 61 more Saturdays to go...

[Rob]

Got to spend a little time shooting this last weekend.  I spent some time with the 375 HH.  I am trying to get loads with different bullets that have similar points of impact.  I am continuing to find the 375 HH to be very sensitive to loading.
I shot two bullets:  a 250 grain Tipped TSX and a 300 Grain Swift A-frame.
If I zero on the tipped TSX shooting 68 grains of H-4895, Then I get the following info (5 shot groups)
68 grains:  Point of Impact (POI) = Point of Aim (POA)
67 grains:  POI is 2.2 inches below POA
66 grains:  POI is 3.1 inches below POA

Using the same zero, and shooting the Swift A frame with I-4350 I get
81 grains: POI is 4.4 inches below POA
80 grains: POI is 5.5 inches below POI

81 grains of I-4350 is not only the max load, but a compressed load as well. The primers were pretty flat, but not extruded and the primers were not cratered.   So I can’t really add a grain to the A-frame load.  I-4350 is also the fastest powder according to my lyman book. 
I don’t really want to slow down the TTSX as I am pretty much shooting starting loads at this point. 

My next step will be to try some of the Woodleigh hydrostatic stabilized bullets and see what they do.

After spending the day at the range, I met a buddy and we went out to shoot from different hunting positions (i.e. on slopes, prone, sitting, etc) over some clear cuts.  For fun I took a shot at a 2.5 foot thick tree with the 450 Dakota.  The bullet passed clean through in what seemed to be a straight line.  30 inches of straight-line penetration through living wood is pretty darn good!

I shot about 150 rounds on Saturday, about 75 of them were from large rifles like 338 WM/300 WM, and 375 HH.  The balance were small bore like 223 WSSM/204 Ruger/25.06 Remington/22.250 Remington.  I ended the day with 4 shots from the 450 Dakota.  It was tolerable, but I had limited desire to shoot more from it!  I am hoping that I was tender from the other rifles.  If not I may not survive the 30 round big bore shoot in Montana later this month!  I may need to invest in a sissy pad.

[bisonhunter1]

Rob,

Sounds like you have an intersting problem with your .375.  I too have a .375 H & H on the CZ American Safari Magnum platform. Its a kicker in of itself and I can only imagine what that .450 Dakota you have is like. I used my .375 on my 2008 Namibia plains game hunt (took a Ruger 77 in .30-06 as the backup). Largest bodied animal I shot with it was a cape eland, tough bugger, 3 shots to bring that one down for good. Not sure what to tell you about your different impact issues with the gun with those different bullet weights except to pick one weight, sight in for that and call it good, but I suspect you already thought of that. When I went, and since I wasn't after any DG, I shot 300gr. Nosler Partions (factory seconds no less, I reload my own stuff too) out of mine and did have a few 300 grain Barnes solids with me, "just in case". Both loads in my rifle shot within 2 inches of each other, primarly sighted in for the 300 gr. Nosler. Was shooting behind 70 grains of WW 760 if I recall correctly. In my trips to Africa (3 total) I found for me it was way more important where I shot the animal than what I shot it with. On this same 2008 trip using the .375 I shot and in the end lost a gemsbok bull, ouch on having to pay that trophy fee. Gemsbok seemed to be my jinx animal in Africa, in the three trips I have shot a total of 7 and lost 2 of those seven and only 1 was a 1 shot kill that went only a few yards. I've shot them with my .338 Win Mag and the mentioned .375.

Anyway, great thread you have here, I found this sight for the first time last night and just had to read thru all the pages you have here and the preps you are doing for your 2012 trip. Good luck when the trip does finally arrive and hope you all have a blast.

Willi

[Rob]

The only thing I can think of is that the barrel has some kind of odd resonance going on.  Others with a 375 do not seem to see  the extremes that I do.
Good news is I have over a year to decide on some loads. 
You are right about hitting it right being more important than what you hit it with.  I like the idea of a big bore for two reasons.  First, I think they are fun to shoot.  Pulling the trigger on something that kicks you butt is a bit of a hoot.  (I’m probably messed up in the head).  Second, having that extra penetration is a comforting feeling when you might need to take a rear quartering shot and shoot through rumen, or if you make a poor first shot.  It is nice to know that the bullet you shoot can penetrate through thick hide and bones if duty calls.
But a 375 HH is really the best all around gun for Africa.  No doubt.
Gemsbok are just plain tough animals.  My gemsbok was a debacle.  It took me 8 shots to drop it due to a poor first shot.  Another member of our party lost his Gemsbok.  They just seem to soak up bullets like wet newspaper.  (of course my dad dropped his with a single shot at 220 yards).

Where else did you go on your other two trips?

[h20hunter]

Quick side question here. Does most/all the meat stay local and go to feed the locals? Do you get to enjoy any during camp meals?

[Rob]

I am assuming things will be the same in Zimbabwe as they were in Namibia.  here is how it was in Namibia.

We ate wild game for every meal.  In some cases we ate our own game, in others we ate game from the previous party (so they could age the meat a bit).

The game we shot was either eaten by the trackers and their families, or sold to market.  Namibia is a bit different than other countries as it is one of the least populated ones.  There were no "villages" like you think of when you think of Africa.  The trackers and their families lived on the property owned by the hunting outfitter (109,000 acres).  There was a little town on the property with several houses that the families lived in.  The lodging and food is provided by the outfitter as well as wages and training (they go to Windhoek for tracking school annually in the off season).  I don't have a really good photo of the place the folks were living.  the best I have is attached.

Side note: We spent some time shooting birds while we were there.  Grouse type things, and guinea fowl.  The trackers though we were crazy to spend time, and shoot expensive shells on something small and useless foodwise as a bird.  They took the birds home for dinner, but I guess they don't really like them much.  They think it is more better to focus on getting a large game animal that will feed more people.  I thought this was kind of interesting from a cultural perspective.  Not sure if all trackers in all countries are like this, or if it was just the folks we were with. 

[bisonhunter1]

Rob,

Everyone might think I'm a stick in the mud stuck in a rut, lol. In my 3 trips to Africa (2003, 2008, 2010) I've done all PG hunts. 3 times in Namibia and 2 times in South Africa. I always hunted with different safari companies on every trip and so got to see different parts of each country each time. My PG animlas taken have run from small, duiker and steenbok to medium, springbok, blesbok, red hartebeest, bushbuck to larger animals like nyala, eland, gemsbok, blue and black wildebeest and zebras, both the Burchells (2) and a Hartmans mountain zebra to the biggest animal I ever shot which was a bull girafe on my 2010 trip in Namibia (shot that one from about 100 yards using my .338 Win Mag shooting shooting  250 gr. barnes TSX).
Maybe someday might go back, but for the price of that buffalo hunt or cats I could do at least two other hunts either here in USA or another PG in Africa.  Also just finished a trip to New Zealand this past May and took a 13" Tahr and a 17 point red deer stag plus various varmits. Next "big"  alreadu booked hunt if you will is to Alberta, Canada in Nov 2012 for moose and deer. That might be a good time to take my .375 again or maybe the .338 WM, have lots of time to decide.
Again, great thread and of course we all want post hunt information.
Later,
Willi

[bisonhunter1]

Rob

Like you said all the game meat is saved and either used by the PH and or his staff and excess is sold in local meat markets. I ate meat from animals either I had shot or from previous hunters. Wasn't smart enough to ask about the giraffe I shot since we hunted and I shot that on a different farm not owned by the PH I was with. Most interesting flavor of meat was from the zebra I shot in SA on the 2010 trip, while well marinated ( no they didn't tell what the secret sauce was) and then cooked over open wood fire, it was definatly interesting and had a very sweet flavor to it. Best game animal meat I think was from eland.

Willi

[actionshooter]

Just "bookmarking" this thread, thanks for the great info!