begginer photog

[boonerboy]

with too many missed photo ops in the hills, I have decided I need a good camera to accompany me. I have budgeted myself $1,500 towards a decent setup to start learning the art so many of you have perfected. I have reseached a little online but know next to nothing about cameras and their specs. I found a Canon EOS rebel t2i 18-55mm and an EF75-300mmIII lens for $899 or an EOS 50d and EF70-300mm f/4-5.6 usm for $1,650. Would I be better off spending the extra money on this setup or would the rebel be a good purchase...or should I go for a comletely different setup altogether? Any input or advice is appreciated.

[grandpawrichard]

boonerboy,
I am a Canon Camera user. I love them! I own a Canon 30D and a Canon 40D. I have often thought about upgrading to a 50D, but I really would only be gaining a few mega pixels, so it really isn't worth it to me.

I have posted the following specs below, go ahead and read them and then towards the end of the post I will give you my thoughts:

Canon Rebel T2i specs:
# 18.0-megapixel CMOS sensor
Creates an effect 1.6x field of view and captures high-resolution images up to 5184 x 3456 for images with exceptional clarity and tonal range.
# EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 image-stabilized zoom lens
Included for intricate picture detail. EF lens mount for use with Canon EF and EF-S interchangeable lenses (other lenses not included).
# 3" Clear View TFT-LCD monitor
Features Live View technology, 160° viewing angle, approximately 100% coverage, and an antireflective and water-repellant coating for a clear and smudge-resistant surface. 7 levels of brightness adjustment.
# Eye-level pentamirror viewfinder
With fixed, precision matte focusing for clear viewing. 95% vertical and horizontal coverage.
# DIGIC 4 image processor
Features noise-reduction technology for fast processing of fine detail, smooth color tones and gradations and natural color reproduction.
# Wide-range ISO settings
Adjust from 100-6400 ISO, with expansion option to 12800 for stunning image capture, even in low light.
# Face detection technology
Isolates subjects in-frame and optimizes conditions to take the best pictures of friends and family.
# 63-zone TTL full-aperture metering exposure controls
With auto, manual, program, shutter- and aperture-priority, depth-of-field EA and E-TTL II auto flash modes.
# 9-point autofocus
With auto, one-shot AF, predictive AI servo AF, AI focus AF and manual focusing options.
# Retractable, auto pop-up flash
With E-TTL II auto flash metering and flash-ready icon lights visible in the viewfinder.
# White balance options
Include auto, daylight, shade, cloudy, tungsten light, white fluorescent light, flash and custom. White balance correction and white balance bracketing for natural tones in different lighting conditions.
# Full HD movie mode
Captures video at selectable resolutions, including 1920 x 1080 (at 24, 25 or 30 fps), 1280 x 720 or standard-definition video a 640 x 480). Movie crop function for cropping a standard-definition movie up to 7x magnification.
# Media slot
Supports Secure Digital, Secure Digital High Capacity and Secure Digital Extended Capacity formats (media not included). Compatible with Eye-Fi Secure Digital cards with a Wi-Fi transmitter for easy transfer of images.
# Store more photos!

Canon EOS 50D
Sensor    • 22.3 x 14.9 mm CMOS sensor
• RGB Color Filter Array
• Built-in fixed low-pass filter (with self-cleaning unit)
• 15.5 million total pixels
• 15.1 million effective pixels
• 3:2 aspect ratio
Image processor    DIGIC 4
A/D conversion    14 bit
Image sizes    • 4752 x 3168
• 3456 x 2304
• 2353 x 1568
File formats    

• RAW (.CR2; 14-bit)
• JPEG (EXIF 2.21) - Fine / Normal
• RAW + JPEG (separate files)
• sRAW1 (7.1 MP)
• sRAW2 (3.8 MP)
Lenses    • Canon EF / EF-S lens mount
• 1.6x field of view crop
Dust reduction    • "EOS Integrated Cleaning System"
• Self-cleaning sensor unit (filter in front of sensor vibrates at high frequency at start-up and shutdown - can be disabled)
• Dust Delete Data - Data from a test shot is used to 'map' dust spots and can be later removed using Canon DPP Software
Auto focus    • 9-point TTL CMOS sensor
• All points cross-type for lenses of F5.6 or faster
• Center point additionally sensitive with lenses of F2.8 or faster
• AF working range: -0.5 - 18 EV (at 23°C, ISO 100)
Focus modes    • One shot AF
• AI Servo AF
• AI Focus AF
• Manual focus
AF point selection    • Auto
• Manual
Predictive AF    • Up to 8 m
AF assist    • Stroboscopic flash
AF microadjust    • +/- 20 steps
• Adjust all lenses by same amount/individually adjust up to 20 lenses
Metering    • TTL 35 zone SPC
• Metering range: EV 0.0 - 20 EV
Metering modes    

• Evaluative 35 zone
• Partial (9% at center)
• Spot metering (approx. 3.8% at center)
• Center-weighted average
AE lock    • Auto: One Shot AF with evaluative metering
• Manual: AE lock button
Exposure compensation    • +/-2.0 EV
• 0.3 or 0.5 EV increments
Exposure bracketing    • +/- 2.0 EV
• 0.3 or 0.5 EV increments
Sensitivity    

• Auto ISO (100-1600)
• ISO 100 - 3200
• 0.3 or 1.0 EV increments
• H1 (6400) and H2 (12800) expansion
Shutter    • Focal-plane shutter
• 100,000 exposure durability
• 30 - 1/8000 sec
• 0.3 or 0.5 EV increments
• Flash X-Sync: 1/250 sec
• Bulb
Aperture values    • F1.0 - F91
• 0.3 or 0.5 EV increments
• Actual aperture range depends on lens used
White balance    • Auto
• Daylight
• Shade
• Cloudy
• Tungsten
• Fluorescent
• Flash
• Custom
• Kelvin (2500 - 10000 K in 100 K steps)
WB bracketing    • +/-3 levels
• 3 images
• Blue / Amber or Magenta / Green bias
WB shift    • Blue (-9) To Amber (+9)
• Magenta (-9) to Green (+9)
Picture style    • Standard
• Portrait
• Landscape
• Neutral
• Faithful
• Monochrome
• User def. 1
• User def. 2
• User def. 3
Custom image parameters    • Sharpness: 0 to 7
• Contrast: -4 to +4
• Saturation: -4 to +4
• Color tone: -4 to +4
• B&W filter: N, Ye, Or, R, G
• B&W tone: N, S, B, P, G
Image processing    

• Highlight tone priority
• Auto lighting optimizer (4 settings)
• Long exposure noise reduction
• High ISO noise reduction (4 settings)
• Auto correction of lens peripheral illumination (vignetting)
Color space    • sRGB
• Adobe RGB
Viewfinder    • Eye-level pentaprism
• 95% frame coverage
• Magnification: 0.95x(-1 diopter with 50 mm lens at infinity)
• Eyepoint: 22 mm
• Interchangeable focusing screen Ef-A standard (2 other types optional)
• Dioptric adjustment: -3.0 to +1.0 diopter
Focusing screens
(optional)    • Ef-A (Standard Precision Matte - included)
• Ef-D (Precision Matte with grid)
• Ef-S (Super Precision Matte for easier manual focus)
Mirror    • Quick-return half mirror (transmission:reflection ratio 40:60)
• Mirror lock-up (once or multiple exposures)
Viewfinder info    • AF points
• Focus confirmation light
• ISO sensitivity
• Shutter speed
• Aperture
• Manual exposure
• AE Lock
• Exposure compensation amount
• AEB level
• Spot metering area
• Flash ready
• Red-eye reduction lamp on
• High-speed sync
• FE Lock
• Flash compensation amount
• ISO speed (while changing)
• WB correction (while changing)
• Highlight tone priority icon *
• B&W mode icon
• Warnings
• Maximum burst for continuous shooting
• Buffer space
LCD monitor    • 3.0 " TFT LCD
• 920,000 pixels
• 7 brightness levels
• 160 ° viewing angle
• Dual anti-reflection
LCD Live view    

• Live TTL display of scene from CMOS image sensor
• 100% frame coverage
• 30 fps
• Real-time evaluative metering using CMOS image sensor
• Best view or exposure simulation
• Silent mode
• Grid optional (x2)
• Magnify optional (5x or 10x at AF point)
• Three AF modes - Live mode/Quick mode/Face Detection
• Histogram
• Remote live view using EOS Utility 2.0 (via USB or WiFi/Ethernet using WFT)
Record review    • Off
• On (histogram via INFO button)
• Display mode same as last used Play mode
• 2 / 4 / 8 sec / Hold
Playback modes    

1. Single image with exposure, file number, storage slot
2. As 1 but also image count and quality
3. Detailed exposure information, thumbnail and luminance histogram
4. Less detailed exposure info., thumbnail, luminance and RGB histograms
Playback features    • Optional blinking highlight alert
• Optional AF point display
• Magnified view (up to 10x)
• 2x2 or 3x3 thumbnail index
• Jump (by 1, 10, 100 images / by screen or date)
• Delete / Protect
Flash    • Auto pop-up E-TTL II auto flash
• FOV coverage up to 17 mm (27 mm equiv.)
• Guide number approx 13 m / 43 ft (ISO 100)
• Cycle time approx. 3 sec
• Flash compensation +/-2.0 EV in 0.3 or 0.5 EV increments
• X-Sync: 1/250 sec
External flash    • E-TTL II auto flash with EX-series Speedlites
• In-camera flash configuration (currently only 580 EX II)
• Wireless multi-flash support
• PC Sync
Shooting modes    

• Auto
• Creative auto
• Program AE (P)
• Shutter priority AE (Tv)
• Aperture priority AE (Av)
• Manual (M)
• Auto depth-of-field
• Portrait
• Landscape
• Close-up
• Sports
• Night portrait
• Flash off
• Camera user settings 1
• Camera user settings 2
Drive modes    

• Single
• High-speed continuous: 6.3 fps
• Low-speed continuous: 3 fps
• Self-timer: 2 or 10 sec (3 sec with mirror lock-up)
Burst buffer    • Large/Fine JPEG: 90 frames (with UDMA card)
• RAW: 16 frames
Orientation sensor    Yes
Auto rotation    • On (recorded and LCD display)
• On (recorded only)
• Off
Custom functions    25 custom functions with 74 settings in 4 groups
Menu languages    

• English
• German
• French
• Dutch
• Danish
• Portuguese
• Finnish
• Italian
• Norwegian
• Swedish
• Spanish
• Greek
• Russian
• Polish
• Czech
• Hungarian
• Romanian
• Ukrainian
• Turkish
• Arabic
• Thai
• Simplified Chinese
• Traditional Chinese
• Korean
• Japanese
Firmware    User upgradable
Portrait grip    • Optional WFT-E3/E3A
• Optional BP-E2N battery grip
• Optional BP-E2 battery grip
Connectivity    

• USB 2.0 Hi-Speed
• Video out
• HDMI connector
• N3 type wired remote control
• PC Sync flash terminal
• Communication terminal on base for WFT-E3/E3A
Storage    • Compact Flash Type I or II (inc. FAT32)
• Supports UDMA cards
• Canon Original Data Security Kit supported ("Original Image Data")
• No CF card supplied
Power    • Lithium-Ion BP-511A rechargeable battery (supplied & charger)
• Supports BP-511 / BP-511A / BP-512 / BP-514
• CR2016 Lithium battery (date/time backup)
• Optional AC adapter
Wireless connectivity
(optional WFT-E3/E3A)    • Mounts on base of camera and also acts as vertical grip
• Has its own BP-511A battery
• Wireless 802.11b / 802.11g
• Wireless security: WEP, TKIP/AES, WPA-PSK, WPA2-PSK
• Wireless methods: Infrastructure or Ad Hoc
• Wired ethernet (100 Base-TX)
• Transfer: FTP, PTP (remote control by computer), HTTP (view / remote fire)
• USB host capable: External hard drives, flash drives
• USB comms: GPS devices (records coordinates and altitude in image header)
Dimensions    146 x 108 x 74 mm (5.7 x 4.2 x 2.9 in)
Weight    • No battery: 730 g (1.6 lb)
• With battery: 822 g (1.8 lb)

Both cameras are Awesome! I think the T2i due to the more mega pixels and the lower price would be a great choice for you. That way you can get the two Kit lenses instead of just one lens.

As far as I am concerned, I would be looking for just a camera body only (no lenses with it) and then with the money I saved I would be buying Fantastic lenses that are Professional Quality and have an L on them! The lens is what brings the picture to the camera to make a Photograph!

I have just recently purchased my third L series lens, a 17-40L to compliment my 70-200 L telephoto and my 400L telephoto.

If you are interested, I have a great little 24-70 walk-about lens that I am going to be putting up for sale at a reasonable price. Drop me a pm.

Good Luck on choosing the perfect camera for your needs!

Dick

[grandpawrichard]

Here is a smoking deal on a Canon 50 body and accessories:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=974785

Then you would need to buy a lens to start using it.

Dick

[Skyvalhunter]

Where does a person suggest buying a good lense at a decent price?

[boneaddict]

I buy new.  Just the way I am.  I hate to think I could be spending that much coin and have inherited someone elses problems.   Craigslist, ebay and those places always seem to have smoking deals, but thats not my deal.
I try to purchase on-line from a reputable company.  B and H is good.   Beware of alot of those New york comapnies, but that one is good.   I would love to go into a store like Huppins in Spokane or something but you have state sales tax and when you are talking lens' thats a lot of extra coin. 

[Hyde]

Where does a person suggest buying a good lense at a decent price?

Amazon

[halflife65]

Heard that about those New York companies.  In fact, I saw a 70 - 200 IS F2.8 for something like $600.00 from one of them.  Pretty much wouldn't buy anything from them after seeing that...They'd have your $600.00 plus your credit card number at that point.

I think that adorama is a reputable site, as well.  Never bought anything from them, though.

I have a Canon 30d and need some lenses, too.  Pretty much decided on hte 70 - 200 and 24 - 70 as the two that I'll buy first.  Maybe not the best for wildlife but good for hiking and family shots.  My wife is a barrel racer and I think that 70 - 200 would be a good choice for something like that (ideally the f2.8 but more likely the f4 because of price.)

[swanny]

When I was purchasing my camera, 3 or 4 years ago, everyone said to buy a decent body but to save your money for better glass. I still have yet to buy and better glass than what came with my Nikon D40. Honestly, I think you are better off saving nearly half of that $1500 that you are budgeting, buy the cheaper of the cameras and learn how to use it and it's settings. No sense in dropping a ton of coin and not knowing how to actually use the camera. There is so much to learn with photography it's ridiculous! You will be frustrated when 1 of 100 shots turns out just okay. But, do some reading, ask some questions, and your photos will improve. The camera doesn't make the photos, you do.

[grandpawrichard]

halflife65,
you have a PM.

Dick

[boneaddict]

70-200 would be a great lens for covering barrel racing.   

[Yeti]

NIkon D90 with lens and accessories on ebay. It all came brand new in a box.  So far after a year my wife and I love it and people always complement on our photos.  

http://cgi.ebay.com/Nikon-D90-SLR-Digital-Camera-Body-4-Lens-24GB-NEW-/230566228961?pt=Digital_Cameras&hash=item35aed173e1

This is similar to what we got.  If you are a warranty guy be careful some of these do not come with the "USA- only" warranty because they are not purchased in the USA.


Do your reseach on lenses.  These included are so so as far as capabilities.  IF you go this packaged route stick with the Nikon Nikkor lenses vs the Tamron. Better glass quality. 

[robodad]

I try to post this bit of information when folks are shopping for high priced stuff, don't get SCAMMED !!!

Go here: http://www.resellerratings.com/  and look up the companies your shopping at and see if they are a reputable company !! 

[timberghost72]

When I was purchasing my camera, 3 or 4 years ago, everyone said to buy a decent body but to save your money for better glass. I still have yet to buy and better glass than what came with my Nikon D40. Honestly, I think you are better off saving nearly half of that $1500 that you are budgeting, buy the cheaper of the cameras and learn how to use it and it's settings. No sense in dropping a ton of coin and not knowing how to actually use the camera. There is so much to learn with photography it's ridiculous! You will be frustrated when 1 of 100 shots turns out just okay. But, do some reading, ask some questions, and your photos will improve. The camera doesn't make the photos, you do.

Boy thats the truth. I bought a Rebel series camera with lenses knowing that they were not nearly top of the line but figured it would be good enough. We went to Yellowstone and I took almost 700 pictures and around 10 came out really good. The rest were fair to poor even with a tripod. I also took my Powershot P&S and more of those pictures came out much better than the DSLR. I was very disappointed with the DSLR and was thinking of returning or replacing it but I keep telling myself it takes a ton of learning to use these and to understand photography. It seems even with a tripod my pics come out a little fuzzy like camera shake or the edges are not crisp on the main subjects like the focusing is off slightly.    Indoors I can't get a good picture to save my life. Need to figure out why.

[boonerboy]

thanks for the input guys. alot to think about, good thing I'm not in a hurry! I'm also a little leary of buying used....especially with a product I don't know anything about. There could be something minor wrong with it and I wouldn't know the difference. I will be very careful to not get scammed, thanks for the link...could be helpful. Any other good sites to go check out?

[boneaddict]

B and H is about all you'd need