Casting Question

[fair-chase]

So I have a question for all of you seasoned fishing pros and casting aficionados. I am having problems casting longer poles using open faced bait casting reels. With poles of 7' and under I have no problem with casting distance or accuracy. I am actually quite proficient with my open reels on bass poles. The problem starts with poles above 7' in length. The longer the pole the more pronounced the problem is. Around the 9' mark it becomes embarrassing and ugly to watch. Really puts a damper on stealheading in streams. I would like to correct this problem but not sure where it stems from. Casts usually come up short of target and to the right (I cast left handed). Any ideas on how to correct this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[JimmyHoffa]

I have found that I have to actually change the casting technique a little bit when using the really long poles.  When I use the 7 footer I can cast across the river just using arm and shoulder.  As I move up in pole length, I have to use two hands and twist the body.  If the lure/weight isn't heavy enough, then the pole might not flex enough on the backswing to allow the rod to load and launch....kind of like if you used a broom stick.

[vandeman17]

I have found that I have to actually change the casting technique a little bit when using the really long poles.  When I use the 7 footer I can cast across the river just using arm and shoulder.  As I move up in pole length, I have to use two hands and twist the body.  If the lure/weight isn't heavy enough, then the pole might not flex enough on the backswing to allow the rod to load and launch....kind of like if you used a broom stick.

I agree. When you use a longer rod I found that you have to use a little more body and be smooth because like what was said above, the longer rod's won't flex as much. I had a heck of a time with the longer rods when I first started using them. Looked pretty funny sometimes. 

[JackOfAllTrades]

Pretty much what was said. Shorter light weight pole uses a quicker snap action and lighter line. Longer pole has a more drawn out action in the cast. If you're short arming the long pole, put a little more umph into it and a bit more weight. Now, if you're talking a really light action pole, that is long, then you might not need as much weight, but will need more umph. Your line is dragging on more eyelets too. Type of line on the reel if different from your shorter pole could also affect the cast.

-Steve

[FC]

I use a very short two handed wrist action to cast with longer casting rods and get excellent accuracy and range, the key is to be smooth and use the rods own action to assist your cast. The only times I use a longer cast is when casting sidearm on a stream, around brush or using heavy weight that requires lobbing like a crab trap.

[fair-chase]

Thanks for the input. I have been trying a couple different "swings" but just haven't found one that works for me yet. I think you guys are right that I may be whipping it a little too much because my normal "swing" for the shorter poles is more of a side arm flipping cast. I guess I will have to work on it some more to break the habit of casting that way.

[KopperBuck]

All in the release point

Well it is actually, to some degree. But there are a lot of variables that will change that. You have to make adjustments.

But like was said, typically longer rods have a higher rating when it comes to lures and lines, and it truly makes a difference if you try to match them closely. They're usually rated pretty close for the application. Although, I know sometimes drift fishing can present it's problems when needing to downsize.

If you're not combat fishing, try winging it sidearm. I can smoke my buddy in casting distance as long as I have the room. I used to get a lot of crap about it when I was going to school on the westside and fishing the rivers. Everyone thought I was crazy.

Fact of the matter was, I had your problem. I'm a bass guy. I never stood along a bank fishing next to people. The only overhead casting I get in is slinging 1oz or heavier spinnerbaits, swimbaits, buzzbaits, or cranks on a glass rod. But I never had the problem of trying to decorate the opposite brush. Often times the trees on the other side of a drift look like Christmas trees. I may not have been able to cast overhand well, but I could sling it, and you bet your ass that I could out flip and pitch anyone of those guys giving me *censored* if we stepped foot on my Nitro.

I would lighten up on your cast control. I'm not sure how tight you have it, I know they always say it should be tight enough to just lower your bait. But for me, anything from 1/4 oz and higher have the cast control loose as a goose. I want to control it with my thumb, not have the reel do it for me.

One other good tip, always have your spool as full as possible. It helps.

I'm not sure what kind of hardware you're using, but I've gone away from using any of the classic Abu type reels as I feel they are too cumbersome and limiting. If it's steelhead you're after, think bass.

Do you like drifting with a 9' rod? I've never gone that long, unless I'm float fishing. Tight lines.

[KopperBuck]

Thanks for the input. I have been trying a couple different "swings" but just haven't found one that works for me yet. I think you guys are right that I may be whipping it a little too much because my normal "swing" for the shorter poles is more of a side arm flipping cast. I guess I will have to work on it some more to break the habit of casting that way.

Whoops, just saw this... but keep on keeping on. You'll get it, and believe me, you can swing a big rod from the side, keep that in your back pocket.

[Button Nubbs]

I agree with kopperbuck on this. Release point is the key. I can switch from 7' bass rods to a 12' float rod with no problems. Sometimes I may use 3 different release points in 3 casts. Ex. A lofty cast to get over something, a bullet cast to get under something, and a backhand cast to get around something. They all have different release points. Mess with it til you get it down.

[fair-chase]

First, thanks again for all the great tips guys.

As far as my setup goes, I usually run my reels 80% full with braided wire. Most of my actions are on the medium light side. I have the brakes/runout set very light because I can comfortably controll the runout with my thumb I try to keep the least resistance on the spool as I can.

I don't think I explained my usuall casting very well because I am not very savvy on the fishing lingo. I think you all got it but I would like to clarify. My normal casting with both spinning, open and closed faced reels is what I would call a wrist flip. You might even call it an underhand cast. There is virtually no arm movement at all. I keep the rod  and tip level with my waist on the backswing then on the front swing it has a slight bow or U shape that dips to about knee level with the release usually about mid way up on the bow depending on distance. This is not the cast I use with the longer poles but it is where my muscle memory is since it is my go to cast for nearly everything. This is where I now believe my problem is thanks to some of the tips you guys mentioned. I have been using this cast for so long that the wrist movement is second nature. Even when using a two handed cast I think my wrist is rolling over too much. So I did a little test and went out in the yard with a wrist brace on to see if it would straighten out my two handed casts. Bingo!!!  Still don't have the distance down but the accuracy is greatly improved. Apparently my wrist was still trying to "roll over" even with the two handed casts. During the practice runs without the wrist brace I noticed that when my wrist would roll it would cause the pole to be slightly off axis so that the string wasn't running with the spine but actually off to the side when I neared the realease point.


Thanks so much for helping out. I have a long ways to go to be proficient at throwing my longer rods but now that you helped me identify the problem I am confident that I can correct it. I think I will practice for a couple more days and then head out to try and land some steelies.

[Fishnclifff]

With any rod, 10 oclock to 2 o clock, will teach you how the rod reacts to weight.
Most of the cast is the release point. Generally this happens at around 2 oclock.

This can be adjusted by releasing your wrist earlier or later.
Sidearm or overhand, you can flip a cast or extend a cast, by using your wrist.

Most people use their body too much, hence your casts fly to the right.

With a 10-2 motion, the rod tip flexes on the forward motion- loading the tip, your wrist releases at 2, then your arm continues the rod motion forward to about the 3 o clock position, some people go as far as 4 oclock. This allows the rod tip to release the energy, propeling your lure on a relatively straight line.

When using a 2 handed rod, the wrist stays relatively still, the arms do most of the work, in a sweeping forward motion.

The rod tip release point is still around 2, but is a smoother gradual swing rather than a fast motion as in casting a spinning or bass rod.

What I teach people is to tie on a 1/2 to 1 oz sinker. Go to any area that is clear. I use the street in front of the house and practice the motion. Slow at first, then pick it up to full power.