Mechanical broadheads....

[grundy53]

So mechanical broadheads were brought up in another thread and I didn't want to jack the thread so I will ask here. What is the reason the state gives for not allowing them? Is it because if they don't open up it would be like shooting an animal with a feild point or is it because they do make as big of an entrance wound as regular broad heads or.....? Obviously I'm new to bow hunting and don't know about this stuff. I'm just wondering and trying to learn.

[Button Nubbs]

Here we go again... I think my popcorn is just about done!

[Machias]

     

[1bugman]

I'm not a bow guy, but have always wondered the same thing.

[carpsniperg2]

There is not really any reason why. They have said that they will not kill as well as a fixed blade head. Between not opening and smaller entrance wounds and etc. There are mechanical heads out there like the rage and t3 that are rear deploying broadheads. They open to the rear and leave huge entrance wounds and are very reliable.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

Well if you talk to opponents they would say that the bow harvest would jump incredibly and that we are losing the heritage of bowhunting. In reality there is no logical reason that they shouldn't be allowed.

[GoldTip]

They do not penetrate nearly as well as a fixed blade head (front or rear deploying) and by being mechanical that fact in an of itself makes them more prone to failure, although I will agree they have gotten very good.  Also, they offer absolutely no advantage to a fixed blade broadhead from a even fairly well tuned bow.

[grundy53]

Well if you talk to opponents they would say that the bow harvest would jump incredibly and that we are losing the heritage of bowhunting. In reality there is no logical reason that they shouldn't be allowed.

I understand this isn't your point of view but using that logic. If you were to hit a deer in the exact same spot with a Regular broadhead and a mechanical broad head and the deer hit with the mechanical dies where as the one hit with the regular broad head is just wounded. Wouldn't that make an argument that the mechanical is more ethical? Also I bet if you were to aim an arrow tipped with one or the other it's going to hit the target probably about the same amount of times therefore if one is more effective a killing as apposed to wounding then you would think it would be more ethical. then again like I said, I'm new to this and don't know what I'm talking about.  

[grundy53]

They do not penetrate nearly as well as a fixed blade head (front or rear deploying) and by being mechanical that fact in an of itself makes them more prone to failure, although I will agree they have gotten very good.  Also, they offer absolutely no advantage to a fixed blade broadhead from a even fairly well tuned bow.

That makes sense.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

They do not penetrate nearly as well as a fixed blade head (front or rear deploying) and by being mechanical that fact in an of itself makes them more prone to failure, although I will agree they have gotten very good.  Also, they offer absolutely no advantage to a fixed blade broadhead from a even fairly well tuned bow.

 

I can't deny any of that. However, I have killed a lot of animls with mechanicals over the years and never had one fail. I believe the failure rate would probably be less than the numebr of guys that are shooting Fixedblade broadheads with poorly tuned bows (which I see all the time). Not that mechanical broadheads alleviate a guy from having to tune his bow....just the opposite...its infinitely more important.

I personally prefer fixed blade cut-on-contact broadheads and see no reason to change but I am certainly not against mechanicals.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

Well if you talk to opponents they would say that the bow harvest would jump incredibly and that we are losing the heritage of bowhunting. In reality there is no logical reason that they shouldn't be allowed.

I understand this isn't your point of view but using that logic. If you were to hit a deer in the exact same spot with a Regular broadhead and a mechanical broad head and the deer hit with the mechanical dies where as the one hit with the regular broad head is just wounded. Wouldn't that make an argument that the mechanical is more ethical? Also I bet if you were to aim an arrow tipped with one or the other it's going to hit the target probably about the same amount of times therefore if one is more effective a killing as apposed to wounding then you would think it would be more ethical. then again like I said, I'm new to this and don't know what I'm talking about. 

I personally haven't seen a difference in effectiveness in dispatching an animal. However, I believe a cut-on-contact, fixed blade broad head is without a doubt more effective. LIke GoldTip said you aren't going to get the same penetration with a mechanical (however I believe penetration is sufficient in all but less than ideal situations (and in those situation the extra penetration given by a cut-on-contact/fixed will probably make a difference in only few instances). On the same token the Chisel tip broadheads just aren't going to get the the penetration that a cut-on-contact will. In addition to all of this I by far prefer cut-on-contact for quartering away shots.[/quote]

[Gringo31]

I'm told that it is the same reason for no scopes on muzzleloaders.  It keeps the "primitive" weapon a bit more primitive.  I know, I know, but where do you draw the line?

[Skillet]

It has more to do with keeping the seasons set aside for "primitive weapons" as primitive as possible. Same old argument as used against lighted nocks, lighted bowsights, rocket propelled grenades, etc.

Just noticed Gringo said the same thing I did.  He's pretty smart! 

[JimmyHoffa]

They do not penetrate nearly as well as a fixed blade head (front or rear deploying) and by being mechanical that fact in an of itself makes them more prone to failure, although I will agree they have gotten very good.  Also, they offer absolutely no advantage to a fixed blade broadhead from a even fairly well tuned bow.

Most of the mechanical broadheads I've encountered had a significantly larger cutting width (upon and assuming full opening) than the fixed ones.  So based on the physics of it, I wouldn't expect it to penetrate as deeply.  If a fixed broadhead makes a pass through on an animal and only has a width of 1" vs a mechanical broadhead that barely makes it across the vitals with a 2" width, then I'm not sure the penetration mattered as much because one has the chance to cut (and be slowed down by) more stuff in there.
I think I would agree that the main reason they aren't allowed is as a previous poster said it is more deviation from the traditional aspect.

[Machias]

I believe the failure rate would probably be less than the numebr of guys that are shooting Fixedblade broadheads with poorly tuned bows (which I see all the time).  I personally prefer fixed blade cut-on-contact broadheads and see no reason to change but I am certainly not against mechanicals.

Great answer!

I also believe there is some questions regarding their effectiveness on elk.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

I am not an elk guy but I have heard the same thing regarding mechanicals on elk. I have also heard propenents of using them for elk say that you should have at least 65lbs of kinetic energy at a minimum. I personally have no experience with using them or any broadhead for that matter on elk.

[halflife65]

Well, I have a sample size of 1, which is, of course, statistically irrelevant.  I hunted out of state this last year, had a complete passthrough with a G5 Striker and a dead deer in less than 100 yards.  My hunting partner used something close to a Rage mechanical with a huge cutting diameter, had a complete passthrough and a dead deer in less than 30 yards.  Massive damage.

Given, these were deer and not elk and both shots were right on the money but I was impressed with the mechanical.  The hole it opened up was astounding.  I have no problem with them.

[NWWABOWHNTR]

Not many States in the west will allow them(if any), since you are possibly hunting bigger animals not just Whitetails.... I have tested several, shooting them into plywood.... the majority on an angling shot will glance off and not penetrate, where using at the same angle, same bow etc... using my snuffers I penetrated.  Now this was just my testing, but give it a try...  also must say that most mechanicals blades broke when hitting the plywood... where of course the fixed blades cut right through.... a cut on contact fixed blade will do the job without failure to open...  just my opinion. 

[Machias]

Wow this is cool a thoughtful and civilized discussion on a controversial subject! 

[NWWABOWHNTR]

Wow this is cool a thoughtful and civilized discussion on a controversial subject! 

Thats because he didn't say he wanted to use luminoks, with his laser aimed mechanical BH in a trad only GMU.... 

[1bugman]

Wow this is cool a thoughtful and civilized discussion on a controversial subject! 

Oh, give it time. some one will get home from work have a drink, read this and then it's on.    

[Button Nubbs]

Imo 2 holes are beþter than 1 I'd rather not risk it. In a perfect world we would all make perfect shots. This is not a perfect world and I would hate to put a mechanical into any animals shoulder and see most of my arrow hanging out of the animal. I hope for the best bt prepare for the worst

[turkeyfeather]

I have enough trouble hunting the last thing I want is another thing that can go wrong.

[hughjorgan]

It is unlawful to hunt big game animals with
a broadhead blade unless the broadhead
is unbarbed and completely closed at
the back end of the blade or blades by
a smooth, unbroken surface starting at
maximum blade width and forming a
smooth line toward the feather end of the
shaft and such line does not angle toward
the point.

The argument that makes most sense to me is that mechanical broadheads are barbed, so if you make a bad shot that arrow is going to remain stuck in there where a broadhead with a closed back end can be worked out.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

Imo 2 holes are beþter than 1 I'd rather not risk it. In a perfect world we would all make perfect shots. This is not a perfect world and I would hate to put a mechanical into any animals shoulder and see most of my arrow hanging out of the animal. I hope for the best bt prepare for the worst

If you hit a "shoulder" and lose the deer you most likely hit the humerus. If you hit the humerus fairly solid you are likely going to be in bad shape no matter which broadhead you have. However, if you hit the scapula(shoulder blade) broadsided you should get good penetration with mechanical or fixed. Of course the mechanical will require more kinetic energy to equal the penetration of a fixed cut on contact broadhead. I think most full penetration shoulder shots that people refer to are actually scapula shots. The scapula really isn't that thick towards the top.

[Button Nubbs]

Ok my bad, not full shoulder, more like shoulder muscle. Shoulder muscle is thicker and tougher than just the skin behind the shoulder right? My logic (remember, MY logic ) tells me that the muscle would be tougher to penetrate than just hide right? That combined with large blades deploying on contact would hinder penetration as opposed to a head that is cutting as it enters the animal. Maybe I am completely off base here but it makes sense to me. Maybe I'm just splitting hairs.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

I agree you will have more resistance and that the fixed blade (particularly cut-on-contact) will penetrate better than the mechanical in that instance. However, I have seen mechanicals and fixed blades blow through the shoulder muscles and both scapulas on broadside shots. Of course as I mentioned before there is no doubt that the fixed blade will be more efficient in this scenario and the mechanical will require more kinetic energy to get the same results.

[7mag.]

This is a great topic. I always thought that mechanicals had an advantage over fixed blade, but I have never shot mechanicals, just what I've heard. I'm glad I read this thread, I'm learning a lot. There are a lot of good points made here, in favor of fixed blade broadheads.

[Machias]

I think on arrival a sharp fixed blade does a better job.  The mechanicals are touted because of the ease from release to arrival, they fly like a field point for most folks.  Thing is, so does a properly tuned fixed blade and I believe that is one of the advantages to the mechanicals is they are easier to tune.....or so I have heard.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

I think the biggest advantage to mechanicals is the total cutting volume is generally greater than any fixed blade.

[Elkslayer]

It is unlawful to hunt big game animals with
a broadhead blade unless the broadhead
is unbarbed and completely closed at
the back end of the blade or blades by
a smooth, unbroken surface starting at
maximum blade width and forming a
smooth line toward the feather end of the
shaft and such line does not angle toward
the point.

The argument that makes most sense to me is that mechanical broadheads are barbed, so if you make a bad shot that arrow is going to remain stuck in there where a broadhead with a closed back end can be worked out.

This was the reason I got as well when I talked to a Game Warden.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

It is unlawful to hunt big game animals with
a broadhead blade unless the broadhead
is unbarbed and completely closed at
the back end of the blade or blades by
a smooth, unbroken surface starting at
maximum blade width and forming a
smooth line toward the feather end of the
shaft and such line does not angle toward
the point.

The argument that makes most sense to me is that mechanical broadheads are barbed, so if you make a bad shot that arrow is going to remain stuck in there where a broadhead with a closed back end can be worked out.

This was the reason I got as well when I talked to a Game Warden.

That was my understanding also.
Everyone can argue about all the rest of this stuff, but AT THE TIME THE RULE WAS WRITTEN, ,..... 
Archery Tackle is constantly changing, and the rules will too, after they allow mechanicals, then everyone will complain about not being able to use "pods"

[Button Nubbs]

"pods" I think pods should be allowed because it won't matter where i hit the deer, it will die! That will make it easier for me I won't have to practice all the time and I can go to the woods and just start flingin arrows! I can't believe dfw won't allow these

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

See what I mean !   

[DBHAWTHORNE]

Heat seaking arrows with pods...thats the way to go

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

Heat seaking arrows with pods...thats the way to go

Don't forget the lasers in the BH, and gps chip,  !!

[kibber]

I have been told the the same about the mechanical broadhead not backing out of an animal that has been hit poorly. Never tested this theory but seems to make some sence.

[halflife65]

That explanation makes sense to me.  I don't have a problem with mechanicals but also no plans to change from fixed even if they became legal.