Skagit county

[Wacenturion]

Bowhunter........great pictures!

[BOWHUNTER45]

Wacenturion .... Sweet ..thanks for summing that up .... I dont care where we have turkeys as long as we have them somewhere ... gobble gobble  later men !!!!!

[Wacenturion]

YOU CAN BUY EASTERN STOCK CHICKS AND EGGS FROM THE ONLINE POULTRY PLACES.  These have the same genes as any that WDFW released here in Western WA.

That's like saying Einstein and a person with the IQ of a grape have the same genes. 

The only thing similar is that the WDFW wild released eastern birds and the eastern game farm stock birds both have turkey genes....nothing more, and certainly they are not similar in their contribution to the physical makeup of said birds.  All other similarities stop there.

[BOWHUNTER45]

yeah huh just advertise this on a site like this one ....

[Wacenturion]

yeah huh just advertise this on a site like this one ....

Advertise what....what am I missing?

[BOWHUNTER45]

sorry guess I worded that wrong ..I ment about buying eggs and raising pen raised birds to let loose ...

[Wacenturion]

Ok...I got ya.  Yeah, would agree as it plants a seed with some who think that helps.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

I just get worried because out of 5 areas that I regularily hunt, only one area have I heard more than 1 Tom gobbling, the others I only hear a single Tom Gobble , and when they gobble, it seems to me they gobble a lot.
Also I have only run into hens in 2 of those locations (although I know there are more than I will see, it just seems like 5 good areas, should have more hens.
I find droppings from a few birds at a time, the only time I find a lot of droppings, they are mostly popcorn sized, so I assume the are from poults...
As long as I continue to find Toms to hunt, cool, but I just wonder why they dont seem to spread into adjoining areas that have the same type of habitat.
or why are the only Toms I seem to run into (actually see) adult and I dont see Jakes at all ?

[BOWHUNTER45]

yeah that is weird.. so you never see jakes or not many hens .. the cover is so dense you dont hear alot of them unless your really close... and if you do hear one and he is gobbling alot you should beable to call him in.... If I hear a turkey gobbling and gobbling and he is moving back and forth in the same area he is in his strut zone .. if I hear this , he is definately a dead turkey... just wait for him to head back the other direction and go where he just was .. yelp soft and most likely he is yours... I have killed birds like this just sitting in camp and all the sudden one will go off like that... 2 yrs ago I sicked my older boy on one like that and when he started calling my younger boy and I could hear him going off and boooooom... that was awesome when we heard him shoot ..younger boy took off like a jet to see his brother and his bird... this is why I love turkey hunting ..nothen even comes close to me ...

[Special T]

I guess i always figured that  coyotes and such would put the hurt on turkeys here on the west side... An acquaintance of mine that hunted turkeys near olympia said they weren't as talkative as on the east side... Do you guys think that is the case?

[Wacenturion]

I guess i always figured that  coyotes and such would put the hurt on turkeys here on the west side... An acquaintance of mine that hunted turkeys near olympia said they weren't as talkative as on the east side... Do you guys think that is the case?

Generally speaking the answer is yes.  However the reasons are twofold.  Densities are lower and Easterns are in smaller groups, so that in itself means less birds heard.
In addition the vegetation in western Washington is dense and it literally eats up the sound of a gobble.  Most times, but not always, you'll need to be within 100-200 yards of a gobbler to even hear them if they are being vocal. 

If you don't believe that, then go out with a friend in a typical setting and walk away from each other in opposite directions and use your turkey calls at different distances like every 50 yards or so.  I think you'll be surprised at how quickly you won't hear each other.  Now I'm not saying you won't hear them at greater distances as it depends on vegetation and where you are located.  If you're up above them, obviously you'll hear somewhat farther than being on flat ground in dense cover.

They do have a tendency to be as vocal as other subspecies.  Hunting Easterns in western Washington kind of goes like this...you scout your ass off for two months prior to season, finally find sign, but hear no gobbles.  In the weeks before the season, you stay on the sign, still no gobbles or you hear an occasional one every now or then.  You're like a kid at Christmas.  You're pretty confident you have your own little honey hole for the opener.  You're finally going to kill the "Ghost" as many refer to them as.  You become unknowingly distant and weird to anyone who you think might try to somehow find your spot.  Your family have growing concerns that you may have gone over to the dark side.   

Then on opening day a gobbler in your spot goes ballistic.  Your twisted mind is now saying..."Hey I know you're here, shut the hell up and stop advertising the fact to anyone else that may be around or following me".  He doesn't come in and you end the day somewhat disappointed but planning your next assault as you walk out.  You may even wait for the cover of darkness to avoid being seen by anyone who might see you and think...A ha...must be turkeys in there, the guy is in camo.  These Eastern birds can make you really do weird things.  Just ask some who have been there and done that............      

[singleshot12]

I guess i always figured that  coyotes and such would put the hurt on turkeys here on the west side...

From what I've seen coyotes aren't near as hard on turkeys as the over abundance of bald and golden eagles we have here on the rainy side. Most of the young birds every year get picked off while out grazing clover in farm fields. There is always a few that eventually get smart, stay close to the dense cover, and graze in people's yards instead of open fields.
This I think is one of the main reason's turkeys here on the west side are so slow to take off in most areas close to the coast.

[Wacenturion]

Oh....and as far as coyotes and other predators.  The most critical time is when they are young poults just out of the nest.  For the first two weeks the young can't fly and roost on the ground.  That is when they are the most vulnerable.  As soon as they can make a short flight into the lower branches of the tree with the hen, losses go down.

Rarely will a coyote take a healthy adult turkey for the most part.  I've actually seen a big Gobbler square off with a coyote and force his exit.  Hens on the other hand fly short distances and land every time the coyote gets close enough to make an attempt.  After awhile of that game the coyote moves on.  Seen that many times.

It just depends as far as predator kills.  Take the NE as an example.  Lots of birds so just from a numbers point of view, predators will take more.  Just a greater availability.....more young, more sick, more old.  Remember turkeys have multiple sets of eyes watching their back, plus they can see almost 270 degrees.  The only thing they don't see is directly behind their head, and to solve that, all they have to do is move their head slightly, one way or the other.

In summary I'll pass along something a long time turkey biologist from Missouri told me once.  If a predator takes an adult turkey, then there was something wrong with that bird.  Obviously an over simplification, but I think you can take from it what he was alluding to.

[Wacenturion]

I guess i always figured that  coyotes and such would put the hurt on turkeys here on the west side...

From what I've seen coyotes aren't near as hard on turkeys as the over abundance of bald and golden eagles we have here on the rainy side. Most of the young birds every year get picked off while out grazing clover in farm fields. There is always a few that eventually get smart, stay close to the dense cover, and graze in people's yards instead of open fields.
This I think is one of the main reason's turkeys here on the west side are so slow to take off in most areas close to the coast.

The main reason Easterns on the west side are slower taking off, is simply a numbers game.  A couple thousand Merriam's and Rio's were either brought in from other states or trapped in state from production and moved starting new flocks in areas that did not have birds, or supplementing areas that did from the mid 80's till around 2002.

On the other hand only about 700-800 Easterns were released from 1987 up to and including 2000.  Capitol Forest alone has 90,000 acres let alone the vast expanses of Lewis, Cowlitz, Mason, Grays Harbor, Pacific, Wakiakum and the remainder of Thurston just to mention a few.  All things considered, they are doing quite well. 

Because of their nature they are hard to get a handle on, as they unlike Merriam's and Rio's spend all their time within the wood line and in close proximity to the edges, and not in the open or semi open like the opther subspecies.  Their scientific name...Meleagris gallopavo silvestris, pretty well sums it up, as silvestris means forest.

There are far more Easterns out there than most would believe.  

[BOWHUNTER45]

yeah i agree ... did you read my story about the coyote taking the gobbler from us while he was in strut ? and I actually wrote two stories in the Record book for Washington about the eagle thing and it sounds like Yelp had that happen too ...Yeah above roosevelt we had a bald eagle take the decoy and did not drop it for as far as we could see him flying with it !!!!