653- White River Archery

[asl20bball]

Just wondering if the elk migrate out of the park by the early bow season in September if drawn for the special permit. I know from hwy 410 FSroad 73, 74, 75 are public access but everything closer to Enumclaw is Hancock land mostly.  Is it worth applying for the elk permit if a Hancock pass is NOT obtained or are the aforementioned FS Roads better for the later season rifle hunters?

[trophyhunt]

The elk do not migrate that early in that unit, most rifle hunts don't get the migration either.  I hunted the white (rifle) for many years till it went to permit only and only a few times can I remember when the snow was deep enough to get the elk out in November. Is it worth applying for, absolutly if you do some poking around in the summer I find out what that backcountry holds. I wouldn't bother with the Handcock properties, you'll just have a bunch of muck's running around with rifles shooting anything off the roads.

[bowpredator]

A couple of friends of mine drew that tag for muzzy in the first part of Octoberlast year. They drug there trailer up to the parking lot of crystal mt. and hunted the ridges around the resort. One filled his tag on a nice 6x6 and the other held out on a big bull and ate his tag. I put in for that tag every year. This year i drew the multi elk tag and will be using my quality bull points for an east side archery permit, but I did put in for the muzzy tag on the regular bull permit. Why they list the white river as a quality permit for archery and a regular bull permit for muzzy is still confusing to me.

[trophyhunt]

Yes I'm with you on that, why they put the Archery in the quality category is beyond me. It makes no sense, we should call Dave ware and let him know what we think.  My wife drew that muzzy tag the first year it was offered, it was won of the funnest hunts I've ever been on.  And by the way, there is nooooo elk up by crystal mountain!! The indians shot them all . On a serious note, Crystal is staying open year round now because of that gondola.  I wonder if you can still hunt on the slopes?  She killed her bull on the second run on your right as you are looking up, we drove right up to the bull and loaded it whole.  If anyone of those hunts out of the three for the white river should be in the quality, it should be the muzzy.

[bigtex]

asl,
 The entire FS 74 RD system is closed to vehicles due to a washout that occured about 5 years go. The FS doesn't really have any concrete plans to rebuild the road because there is no $ money to do so.

Trophy,
 New this year the three Hancock tree farms (Snoqualmie, White River, and Kapowsin) are no longer considered "open and unclaimed" lands which allow tribal hunters to hunt them using tribal laws. So if a tribal member wants to hunt those areas they must follow WDFW regulations. However all USFS lands will still be considered "open and unclaimed"

[trophyhunt]

That sounds like great news, I wonder who will enforce the laws on them if they continue to do what they will on handcock properties? 

[asl20bball]

Big Tex,
Thanks for the info. Guess I wont try looking for black bear up FSRD74. :-)

Sounds like the best bet for this permit draw is the SE portion of the unit east of hwy 410.

[bigtex]

That sounds like great news, I wonder who will enforce the laws on them if they continue to do what they will on handcock properties?

Well for one its Hancock, no D.

Well if any tribal member is on land that is not "open and unclaimed" then WDFW can do whatever they see fit with them if they violate a WDFW law. It's just when they are on "open and unclaimed" lands that tribal laws apply and WDFW is basically powerless.

[cem3434]

We had rifle tags last year and seen quite a Indians hunting in Hancocks property, but none on the USFS land.  They were rude at best and they are all road hunters and wouldn't know how to hunt if the truck wasn't surgically implanted to their asses.  I actually seen one of the Indians shoot a bull out of his truck while we were scouting during the rut.

We passed up or missed out on eight bulls and a couple of spikes before finally shooting a 6x6. All of them expect one were on USFS property and back away from the roads.  In all of our scouting and hunting, we only seen about 6 bulls on Hancock's property because the Indians slaughter them in there unless they avoid the roads.

My fiance also had a tag since we put in on a group hunt. We tried to get her a nice bull for her first elk, but the Indians came in and shot a 6x6 that we were on the last Friday of the season.  We seen him bed up about 300 yards off the road right before dark and they shot it sometime Friday night We returned in the morning and caught them loading it in the dark still. I got into with them and they told me that "Whitey" didn't deserve to hunt their sacred hunting grounds and I left while I could still resist the urge to scalp somebody.

We tried to turn them in, but I was told they could do whatever they wanted. I am actually 3/8 Native American, not Indian, but I have never even thought about getting rights because my "people" haven't been suppressed. I think the Indians not being able to hunt that area is a good thing and maybe they can learn to hunt like the rest of us "Whitey's."

My fiance ended up shooting a spike later that day, which we had actually seen twice before.  He didn't have a big rack like the one that Indians poached, but he sure is tender!

I found that Bigtex probably knows as much or more about this unit than any other person I talked to, so he is a must talk to if you get drawn.

[trophyhunt]

with that kind of attitude from the indians, do you really think that just because Hancock says it's not "open and unclaimed" land that they won't be there poaching?  Hell yes they'll be there and they'll do what they please.  Not saying you don't know what's up big tex but, who has ever in the past 100 years told the indians they can't hunt on a piece of property and have it stick.  I don't believe that the 11 tribes that hunt that area are just gonna stop because Hancock changes some wording.  I wish it was true, sorry for being negative.

[bigtex]

with that kind of attitude from the indians, do you really think that just because Hancock says it's not "open and unclaimed" land that they won't be there poaching?  Hell yes they'll be there and they'll do what they please.  Not saying you don't know what's up big tex but, who has ever in the past 100 years told the indians they can't hunt on a piece of property and have it stick.  I don't believe that the 11 tribes that hunt that area are just gonna stop because Hancock changes some wording.  I wish it was true, sorry for being negative.

Well its not Hancock saying it, its the county prosecutors that have decided the Hancock land is not "open and unclaimed". Of course there will be poaching, there is always poaching, especially on these "private" timber companies land that limit access but only have one security person on each tree farm.

[trophyhunt]

Did this change happen just this year?

[bigtex]

Did this change happen just this year?

yes

[TikkaT3-270Shortmag]

Not a bad late season hunt but shouldnt be a quality. Not sure about the early season

[trophyhunt]

Did this change happen just this year?

yes

That is huge, I wonder how the tribes are feeling about that ruling?  So can every private property owner claim the same thing? like Wheyrehouser (probably spelled wrong) ?  It must be going to the courts? And why did it take sooooo long for someone to think of this? Anyway, sorry for jacking a thread. Just a little bit excited about it. Any info on a link to a news report or anything Tex?  Thanks.

[bigtex]

Did this change happen just this year?

yes

That is huge, I wonder how the tribes are feeling about that ruling?  So can every private property owner claim the same thing? like Wheyrehouser (probably spelled wrong) ?  It must be going to the courts? And why did it take sooooo long for someone to think of this? Anyway, sorry for jacking a thread. Just a little bit excited about it. Any info on a link to a news report or anything Tex?  Thanks.

No links that I know of. The big "breaking point" with Hancock is that you have to pay to enter their property, whereas with a lot of Rayonier or Weyerhauser land it is simply wide open gates, there isn't really a access restriction.