1st range report

[kbrowne14]

This was my first time shooting reloads.  I messed up the target labels.  The upper left corner was actually 51 grains of IMR 4350.  The Upper right corner was 52 grains of IMR 4350.  This is also my first time posting pictures on here, so we'll see how they turn out.  I was shooting a Howa 30-06, winchester brass, CCI 200 primers, Nosler 180 grain Accubonds, IMR 4350 powder.  The X's are shots that I know for a fact that I screwed up, not the gun or cartridge.  My gun liked 51 grains, 52, and 54.  But It did not like 53.  All of them shot left a bit because I sighted in last year with different rounds.  I was sighted in with Hornady superformance which is aobut 300 fps faster than what I was shooting today.  I am a little confused about what to do now though.  I did 5 shots starting at 51 grains to 54 grains.
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[Bob33]

My comments: (a) your sample size is pretty small upon which to draw definitive conclusions; (b) if you x'd that many shots, how do you know some of the shots in the 53 grain load weren't also pulled?; (c) if the 54 grain load shoots well for you, why would you consider any of the others?

[KillBilly]

What yardage were shooting from? Personaly I start at 30 yds. just for grouping data. I don't care where the scope is yet, just looking for the best group. It is easier to get tight groups at 30 yds because you can see the target better and tebd to be steadier. Once you find the load that groups tight, then begin adjusting your scope. Remember that clicks are less at 30 yds. also. I would thenback up to 0 yds. and take about 3 more shots and check the group from there. if the group is still tight then adjust your scope a little more. Once you are back at 100 yards, your groups should still be tight and you can finsih fine tuning your windage and elevation.
Tight groups at 30 yds. should be touching holes or same hole depending on how steady you are. If you are not getting touching holes at 30, go back to the reloading bench. keep trying at 30 until you get the results you want. Keep in mind you will waste less ammo using the 30 yd. rule.
Ignore this if you want to but it works, I promise.

[JackOfAllTrades]

Sample size is small. Yes.. Shooting left? C'mon, there's not a difference in load to make a shot shoot left or right consistantly. Elevation, Yes, but not left to right.  Now, how do your reloads compare to the factory Hornady loads?  You know you pulled this or that.?  Get good at shooting from a bench/rest before you can truly know whether your groups are tight or not. What are you aiming at? Are you trying to center the cross hairs on the orange dot? What is your crosshair sight picture? Put the cross making the dot sitting in the 'v' of the 90' L. There are ways to improve groups just by having an optimal sight picture. (search for one of my recent posts in guns and ammo for an example.) Also, which is your cold bore shot? How long are you waiting between shots to let the barrel cool? Is it a lightweight barrel? Heavy barrel? If every one of them was a cold bore shot, then I'd say you have some work to do. If those are back to back firings, then was the barrel getting warm? What is the trigger weight? What scope and what power/what distance to target?

-Steve

[kbrowne14]

I was waiting about 3 minutes between each shot.  Target was 100 yards away.  I am very new to shooting.  This is my first rifle.  The barrel is just a standard lightweight barrel.  With the Hornady ammo, I was shooting about 1.5" groups consistantly 1.75 inches high at 100 yards.  I want to be zeroed at about 200.  I am not sure why I was shooting left, I assumed ammo, because it was a different bullet, and about 300 to 350 fps faster. 

As far as the X's go.  Maybe im kidding myself, but I felt like I could tell immediately after the shot whether or not I screwed up (slapping the trigger, breathing, or flinching).  I didn't even have to look at the target to know that I threw a round. 

What do you guys mean that the sample is small.  Do I need to load more of each powder weight?  I thought that since I am going to be developing a load for my rifle that this would work, I still have more to test, but I wanted to get a starting point.  I will take any pointers or help I can get.  I don't mean to irritate with lack of knowledge, I am still green in the shooting/reloading world and I am not afraid to admit it.  So if you guys call *censored* on me, I wont get offended.

[GlennGTR]

What yardage were shooting from? Personaly I start at 30 yds. just for grouping data. I don't care where the scope is yet, just looking for the best group. It is easier to get tight groups at 30 yds because you can see the target better and tebd to be steadier. Once you find the load that groups tight, then begin adjusting your scope. Remember that clicks are less at 30 yds. also. I would thenback up to 0 yds. and take about 3 more shots and check the group from there. if the group is still tight then adjust your scope a little more. Once you are back at 100 yards, your groups should still be tight and you can finsih fine tuning your windage and elevation.
Tight groups at 30 yds. should be touching holes or same hole depending on how steady you are. If you are not getting touching holes at 30, go back to the reloading bench. keep trying at 30 until you get the results you want. Keep in mind you will waste less ammo using the 30 yd. rule.
Ignore this if you want to but it works, I promise. WT....?, to check for accuracy, stay with the hundred yard rule as a minimum. Your already on target, so small adjustments are all that is needed. No one looks to their thirty yard group for an indication of accuracy. Have the rifle properly bore sighted before heading to the range, or use a lazer bore sighter at the range, they get you remarkably close. Saves ammo and time. Once you have a good hundred yard group, stretch it out to 200 yards to see what the rifle is capable of. I love it when I shoot sub one inch groups at 200, gives me confidence in the rifle I am shooting.

[Bob33]

Sample size: it's pretty hard to eliminate all the variables that can increase group size when only shooting a few groups.  Think of tossing 100 darts at a target: somewhere along the way you might have three consecutive darts almost touching, and somewhere else you might have three consecutive darts that form a 10" group.  What can either group conclude about your accuracy potential?  Nothing.  If you look at the distribution of all 100 darts, you'll learn much more.

A single shot might catch a puff of wind, you might not hold the gun exactly the same each time, the temperature of the barrel might influence the shot, you might have not loaded each round exactly the same, some of the components might be different, and so forth.  It's real easy to discount a load that you get a poor group with, and real easy to think you've found the end of the rainbow with a good group.

I'd suggest you go back another day and do the same test again.  If you see identical results from your first day, then you've got more to go on.

[kbrowne14]

Ok, I am going to reload the same 4 loads again and go back to the range to see if I get the same results.  I think that will be my next step.  Then I am going to compare it to another powder.  H4831.  Thanks for all the help.

[runamuk]

What yardage were shooting from? Personaly I start at 30 yds. just for grouping data. I don't care where the scope is yet, just looking for the best group. It is easier to get tight groups at 30 yds because you can see the target better and tebd to be steadier. Once you find the load that groups tight, then begin adjusting your scope. Remember that clicks are less at 30 yds. also. I would thenback up to 0 yds. and take about 3 more shots and check the group from there. if the group is still tight then adjust your scope a little more. Once you are back at 100 yards, your groups should still be tight and you can finsih fine tuning your windage and elevation.
Tight groups at 30 yds. should be touching holes or same hole depending on how steady you are. If you are not getting touching holes at 30, go back to the reloading bench. keep trying at 30 until you get the results you want. Keep in mind you will waste less ammo using the 30 yd. rule.
Ignore this if you want to but it works, I promise.

It works even for a blond chick I was having the same issues until Killbilly did this with me and my rifle and now my rifle shoots pretty sweet groups even if I still sort of suck.  If you have someone who has done a lot more shooting than you who can help that is a huge bonus having all the right stuff to shoot from a bench helps as well, then you can go back to shooting off rocks and stumps and your own knee etc...

[Bob33]

Ok, I am going to reload the same 4 loads again and go back to the range to see if I get the same results.  I think that will be my next step.  Then I am going to compare it to another powder.  H4831.  Thanks for all the help.

That sounds like a good plan.  What could be more fun than another day at the range, anyway? 

Show us your results; it will be interesting to compare them to your first results.

[wapiti hunter2]

My 30-06 load, back when I hand loaded, was about 54 gr. 4350 and the 165 gr spitzer boat tail from Sierra.  Consistant 5 shot groups at 1".  Be sure to use a good solid dead rest made with bean bag, rice bags or the like.   You are getting there, keep shooting and keep it fun.

[True Sportsman]

You are doing pretty damn good for being new to reloading and shooting. I'd suggest loading up maybe 12 rounds of the 54 grain load and shooting four 3 shot groups. 3 shot groups will tell you what you want to know. 

I always had really good luck Reloader 22 powder. Maybe look into that if you want to try a new powder.

Also, less is more when shooting and learning to shoot. When I go out and do a range session, I tend to only shoot about 15 rounds max. I feel I can really concentrate on fewer shots. Plus the 7 mag I shoot tends to beat me up. After about 15 rounds and I start to flinch and have trouble concentrating.

The big thing is to pick a decent load and shoot that a bunch at different ranges, off sticks, off stumps, prone, and freehand to learn your load and get comfortable. Good luck.

[bearpaw]

I would take a felt marker or ink pen and put a crosshair on your orange dots so you can zero out on each target.

[GregMcFadden]

One other suggestion, just in case you are not already doing it...

Especially when first starting, log every single shot (if you can).  flag any you thought were bad as well.  soon you will know before you look if you pulled the shot.

The history of the groups and shots can tell you a lot over time, including the cold bore shot location, how the cleanlyness of the bore affects the cold bore shot location , how your cleaning proceedures affect your zero (remove the stock and you run a decent likelyhood of changing your zero, for example), and probably more. I keep a spreadsheet that I list the impact location of all first shots on cold bore, what the condition of the rifle was for the first shot (clean, dirty, horribly filthy, etc), and then I also list the group size for supsequent shots and the number of shots in each group.  It has told me one very interesting thing about my rifle...  on a clean and cold bore, the first three  shots move a bit from each other.  after 3 rounds however, the cold bore first shot is always a bit below the followon 5, which usually group within .8in at 100yards.  that is 30-06 and my particular rifle.  yours will be different, but you will learn its habits soon enough, and sooner if you keep a good log.

[JackOfAllTrades]

Ok, I am going to reload the same 4 loads again and go back to the range to see if I get the same results. 

Taking Bob33's suggesting. Great!

Think of it this way.. I shoot a 1911 at 50yds at a pretty small target. My scoring shots are two strings of five in a match. But! I practice, shooting 50 rnds on the same target at that distance. That jumble of holes starts to show a pattern around the 20 mark. Now, since I'm not shooting from a rest, the human factor is involved, but the accuracy factor is still involved. When I'm working a load for a new bullet, I do the same if the gun is in a ransom rest.  Then I'll do it more than once just to scientifically prove my previous results. You'll be better served by shooting your mix of loads, even more than two times. You're on the right track!

Logging each shot, (from spotting scope on a target back at the bench), so you know where your fowling/cold bore shot is, so you know where your 10th warm barrel shot lands, will tell you a lot about your reloads, your rifle and your shooting abilitiy.

-Steve

[kbrowne14]

So I took some people advice on here and went and shot the same loads that I shot the first time.  I started out with the 51 grains of IMR 4350 and progressed up to 54 grains again.  I got very similar results and learned that my gun can outshoot my abilities any day.  I am sort of leaning towards the 54 grains in the lower right corner, not my smallest group, but I am hunting and an 1/8 of inch at 100 yards wont really matter, I don't think.   I also took the advice and logged my shot patterns and between the 2 days I sort see a pattern.  Am I on the right track with proceeding with the 54 grains and slowly stepping up .5 grains up to 56?
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[JackOfAllTrades]

Do you see signs of high pressure at 54gns? What is the velocity of the bullet with 54gns? How far off the lands is your bullet seated. I'd seat out farther if you're not touching yet. Are you neck sizing or full length sizing? Try only 'neck sizing', fire formed brass. You're getting close.

-Steve

[Bob33]

To be honest I cannot see any significant difference in group size between the different groups.  If 54 grains is safe, I would go with that because faster is better.  To know it's safe, you should chronograph it if possible.

All of those groups are plenty good enough to hunt with.

[kbrowne14]

I am seeing no pressure signs at 54 grains whatsoever.  I don't remember how fast my bullet was going, I believe the manual says that it should be going at approximately 2675.  I really don't have a good way to determine how far off the lands my bullet is seated.  My overall case length 3.245.  I was going to mess with my powder first, then mess with the seating depth.  Will that Work?  I am full length sizing right now, I am not sure how to neck size, do I need to buy a different die?

I know that the group sizes are approximately the same,  I just know how great of a shooter I am.  I don't know if thats all I am capable of or if that is what my gun is capable of.  One thing that I do know is, I hate my trigger pull.  I have to pull out a lot of creep before it breaks.  And there is overtravel.  I am thinking about getting a timney trigger for it.  I don't know if that is a big factor, trigger, but I have felt other ones and I like them better.

[JackOfAllTrades]

  I really don't have a good way to determine how far off the lands my bullet is seated.  My overall case length 3.245.  I was going to mess with my powder first, then mess with the seating depth.  Will that Work?  I am full length sizing right now, I am not sure how to neck size, do I need to buy a different die?

  I am thinking about getting a timney trigger for it.  I don't know if that is a big factor, trigger, but I have felt other ones and I like them better.

There are ways to figure out how far your bullet is off the lands with just a cleaning rod.  The internet is your friend.

Tinkering with the powder,... I think you're close. Now time to tinker with seating depth.

Yes, there are single neck sizing dies that will usually bring on a little more accuracy. You don't need a Forster or Redding. Just the Lyman/Lee/RCBS neck size die will do ya.

A good trigger is often worth better groups and more confidence in the field.

Accuracy in a rifle is a lot like building horse power in a hotrod engine. A good flowing air cleaner doesn't add much power by itself. But, good exhaust, better intake flow, correct timing of fuel injection and a higher lift cam lead to a whole lot more torque. Loading ammunition isn't any different. One change makes little difference, but the combination of good practices will often yield premium results.

But as said... You're doing just fine for hunting accuracy. Just fine. 

-Steve

[True Sportsman]

  I really don't have a good way to determine how far off the lands my bullet is seated.  My overall case length 3.245.  I was going to mess with my powder first, then mess with the seating depth.  Will that Work?  I am full length sizing right now, I am not sure how to neck size, do I need to buy a different die?

  I am thinking about getting a timney trigger for it.  I don't know if that is a big factor, trigger, but I have felt other ones and I like them better.

There are ways to figure out how far your bullet is off the lands with just a cleaning rod.  The internet is your friend.

Tinkering with the powder,... I think you're close. Now time to tinker with seating depth.

Yes, there are single neck sizing dies that will usually bring on a little more accuracy. You don't need a Forster or Redding. Just the Lyman/Lee/RCBS neck size die will do ya.

A good trigger is often worth better groups and more confidence in the field.

Accuracy in a rifle is a lot like building horse power in a hotrod engine. A good flowing air cleaner doesn't add much power by itself. But, good exhaust, better intake flow, correct timing of fuel injection and a higher lift cam lead to a whole lot more torque. Loading ammunition isn't any different. One change makes little difference, but the combination of good practices will often yield premium results.

But as said... You're doing just fine for hunting accuracy. Just fine. 

-Steve

That is all great advice.

I had a couple thoughts. An aftermarket trigger is a great idea. Have it put in by someone who knows what they are doing. I have a Shilen trigger in my 7 Mag. I love it and its always been perfect.

I gave up on neck sizing brass. It could be because I wasn't doing it correctly, but I couldn't get reliable feeding with only neck sized brass. The cases would hang up in the chamber. Out of a hunting gun, that's not good. My full length sized cases were giving me great accuracy and perfect feeding, so I went with those. Something for you to think about.

[sakoshooter]

My comments: (a) your sample size is pretty small upon which to draw definitive conclusions; (b) if you x'd that many shots, how do you know some of the shots in the 53 grain load weren't also pulled?; (c) if the 54 grain load shoots well for you, why would you consider any of the others?

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