Alpine Pack Goats

[deadyote]

So, my Dad just bought a piece of property near one of the wilderness areas and we are thinking about buying some Alpine Goats for packing in.  He has a bad back and me carrying in 60 lbs of gear is getting old.  I can do it for a while longer, but why if we can buy some goats.  The whole work smarter not harder thing.  I meet a few guys a couple years ago that had them and it has peaked my interest.  Their goats followed them everywhere and could carry about 30 lbs a piece.  They said the only issue they had was they had to keep them dry or they would not do anything.  I was just wondering if anyone has them and if so, I have a ton of other questions.  PM me and I'll save everyone else the questions. 

[ICEMAN]

Search Actionshooters posts. He has a ton of experience with them and has posted alot about the topic over the years.
 
Search: "Goat" posted by Actionshooter and you should get alot of info....

[jackelope]

Actionshooter is the man when it comes to pack goats.
Here's a couple other resources with good information.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f61/pack-goats-36442/

http://www.highuintapackgoats.com/

http://www.northwestpackgoats.com/

You should be able to put about 50# on a goat's back as long as the goat is big enough or 25% of their body weight. Goats are cool critters and they can get a lot of places in the high country that horses and mules can't get to...plus they're a lot lower maintenance.

[Machias]

Goats are cool critters and they can get a lot of places in the high country that mules can't get to...plus they're a lot lower maintenance.

  Now I might have to mildly disagree with you on the last part of that, one mule can pack the same as 5 or 6 goats, and I've had goats and mules......mules are extremely low maintenance.   

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

We just bought 3 Alpine "bottle babies" 10 week old goats for family and brush clearing. (yesterday)
I am thinking about training them to pack also, although the maintenance part is a little daunting at the moment, they are (already) a pain in the bottom, seeking constant attention, and crying like babies whenever we leave them.
I can see that when they are older they will have some benefits, but make sure you take into consideration the time and effort it will require to train a few young goats (ihave heard it is better to start as young as possible) or the additional costs of already trained goats.
I will post pictures up later, and keep an update on my progress, although I expect it to be a slow process. 

[jackelope]

Goats are cool critters and they can get a lot of places in the high country that mules can't get to...plus they're a lot lower maintenance.

  Now I might have to mildly disagree with you on the last part of that, one mule can pack the same as 5 or 6 goats, and I've had goats and mules......mules are extremely low maintenance.   

I agree...I should have stressed the "goats can go places others can't" more and the lower maintenance part less.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

One thing I wanted to add... after reading "Goats also seem to put big game animals at ease." I wanted to comment, a doe that comes through our yard occasionally was/is bedded down right now, watching them, (the goats) I will post pict of her also later....

[Machias]

Goats are cool critters and they can get a lot of places in the high country that mules can't get to...plus they're a lot lower maintenance.

   Now I might have to mildly disagree with you on the last part of that, one mule can pack the same as 5 or 6 goats, and I've had goats and mules......mules are extremely low maintenance.   

I agree...I should have stressed the "goats can go places others can't" more and the lower maintenance part less.

I was just messing with you!!

[jackelope]

Gotcha...
 

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

These are my new goats..

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

And the doe that was bedded, watching them..

[Kain]

Man I wish I could get a couple pack goats.  They put deer and elk at ease but attract bears and cougars.   

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

mine wont be big enough to ride like that ! 
cool pics

[dreamingbig]

My cousin has pack goats and he brought them along two years ago on our backcountry elk hunt.  They were okay but still undecided as to whether the extra time taking care of them was worth it.  They do pack a lot of gear but your hike time will be longer as we had to pull them up the hill so to speak.

[jackelope]

I've been on a hike with goats once and there was no need to pull them up the hill...they moved out...kept right up with us the whole time.
Actionshooter has some pics of his goats pulling him up a hill. If he sees this thread maybe he'll chime in.
AlpineGus has some cool goat pics too.

[NoBark]

My son has 3, none old enough to pack yet, but they follow him anywhere I'm kinda excieted to use them to get back in some deeper areas and stay in COMFORT. Hehehe 

[dreamingbig]

Here are three pictures of the goats I mentioned above.  I wouldn't say we had to pull all of them but at times they took a bit slower than we would have liked going up the hill.

[dreamingbig]

Another

[dreamingbig]

One more.

[actionshooter]

Hey Jackelope, thanks for sending me the link. I haven't been on the board much lately.
 I'll try to get some pics up later, they are on another computer.
 
  Alpine is a good breed, I have two and they are good tempered and good sized goats.
 
 

[deadyote]

Where did you guys that have goats, get them?  And where did you learn how to train them?  All this talk about high buck season and using goats is getting me all amped up for hunting season.  I am not sure who said that the goats attract bears, but the more goats the better.  I'll shoot two bears every year.  I love bear meat!!!

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

I bought my goats from a local (rancher/farmer) who advertised on CR, mostly for the kids, and brush clearing.
Figured while I was at it, why not 
So far I have been told that the first years training is all about bonding (so they follow you) and teaching them about lead ropes (collar and leash training, + hooking them in line for areas where a lead rope on packstring is required) and teaching them manners (so they dont eat your food, come inside tent, etc.)
When they get bigger/older (next year) then start getting them trained with packing/panniers.

[Mudball]

I love the idea. I hope that it will be easier to get the kids into the mountain's. The less work they have to do the more fun they will have doing it. I was hoping to get my barn and fence done this year so I can get some next spring. Even getting some that are allready 2 or 3 years old would be fine with me. I hope everyone that has them or is getting them has fun doing it and good luck in the mountain's( No wrecks with the critters that is never fun).

[Kain]

Where did you guys that have goats, get them?  And where did you learn how to train them?  All this talk about high buck season and using goats is getting me all amped up for hunting season.  I am not sure who said that the goats attract bears, but the more goats the better.  I'll shoot two bears every year.  I love bear meat!!!

  I really have no idea if they attract bears or not.  I just wanted to post that picture I found.   

[jackelope]

http://www.northwestpackgoats.com/

There's a lot of great goat info on that site as well as a forum with Classifieds with goats for sale.
Craigslist has a lot of goats for sale. Breed is important. Some goat breeds are lazy and not good for packing. Alpines are a good breed. Some folks like to have goats with horns, some without, etc.

[Alpinegus]

I have 15 plus years of experience with packgoats. Note there is a club in WA called the Evergreen Packgoat Club. You may have seen us at the Puyallup Sportsman show.   
Be careful of were you buy your goats and of breed. Bottle raising goats has always been my preference.
Be aware for those that have goats to keep your goats away from wild animals, as there are currently concerns with packgoats as they are closey related to sheep thus being a possible conflict with Big Horn Sheep. reason is the pnemonia the Big Horns are dieing from. The biologists are trying to resolve the issue. We are doing our best in the local and national communities to tread lightily with this issuse with the Big Horns. Some areas with big Horns may be closed to packgoats. Alaska and the Yukon had shut down packgoats in the dall sheep areas. 
Alpinegus ---->> EGPgC - President; & NAPgA member.

[Alpinegus]

More pictures...

[Kain]

That is just soooooo cool. 

[JimmyHoffa]

I've seen pack goats get deep into the Olympics.  They seem to be very sure footed, as they were going over rocks, logs, scree, and foot bridges.  When I see horses cross, they have to wade across the rivers...which could be an issue if it rains after you go in. The goats were also able to eat a more varied range of plants.  The goats I saw were headed up to the mountain tops in snow/ice carrying snowboards and skis.  They could also double as kitty bait.
One thing to note, whether horses, llamas, al pacas or goats.  The forest service wilderness rules only allow a max of 8 stock animals per group.  So someone like Machias could take 8 of his mules with the carrying capability of 40-48 goats, but goat man can only take 8 goats.
The goats can also ride in big dog kennels in the back of a pickup, so you don't need to drag a horse trailer around--which can be a real pain in the ass sometimes.  And depending on which wilderness area you're headed to, may be inaccessible with a stock trailer.  I can think of a few entry points near one of my local wilderness areas that can be reached by truck, but due to a large slide over the road...not sure a trailer would get over it. 

[actionshooter]

AlpineGus is the man when it comes to goatpacking.........I've learned a ton from him and he knows his stuff!   

[WA hunter14]

are goats friendly with dogs?

[Alpinegus]

are goats friendly with dogs?

Depends on the goat and dog; similar to you and a dog. Do they know each other, the attitude of the dog.
We have often taken dogs on the trail, no problem.
Some dogs are raised and used to protect / gaurd goats like a Great Pyrenees.

Dogs that do not know the goats or what they are are the biggest trouble; these dogs are more problems in the woods than lions, tigers and bears. 

Here is a picture of what happens to a goat from a kid friendly Shar-Pei.    Dog in doggy hell now.

[CAMPMEAT]

are goats friendly with dogs?

Depends on the goat and dog; similar to you and a dog. Do they know each other, the attitude of the dog.
We have often taken dogs on the trail, no problem.
Some dogs are raised and used to protect / gaurd goats like a Great Pyrenees.

Dogs that do not know the goats or what they are are the biggest trouble; these dogs are more problems in the woods than lions, tigers and bears. 

Here is a picture of what happens to a goat from a kid friendly Shar-Pei.    Dog in doggy hell now.

Looks like that goat has been in Enumclaw...........

[WA hunter14]

sorry that happened, how did that dog get there, you shoot the thing?

[Alpinegus]

sorry that happened, how did that dog get there, you shoot the thing?

Actually happened at home in the goats pasture. Had I not seen the dog on the goats eating it; I would not have suspected the dog.    Did not have a gun handy by the time the dog ran home.
Owners had the dog put down the next day, and they covered vet bills.

There were 7 holes you could see day light through. Still has a hole in the ear.

After the event this goat does not shy from dogs, but stands ready for any confrontation. He recovered and is a good packer.

[Special T]

My bro had a goat, and my folks had a Sharpie... Any dog that had had a reared up horned goat dropp a flying headbutt to them will not screw with goats again! Just imagine a goat on a 3 foot rock, jump and dive head first into the skull of a dog.  I thought it looked more like a WWF wrestler flying off the top rope with an elbow drop or something... 

[timberghost72]

What do you guys with goats do when you take them up on a hunting trip during the day while out of camp? I have been looking into goats for backpacking in the summer and also I have been wanting to do a high buck hunt and am limited on what I can carry so goats I think are a great option. While backpacking staying around camp during the day I know the goats will just hang out but when out for the day hunting do you tie them up? bring a portable fence? or take them with you? (I have heard of people hunting with their goats) Are predators a big issue?

[sebek556]

ok whoa, my mind is blown never thought of this and i had 3 goats given to me years ago and just used them as field mowers. But gotta ask how many goats does it take to pack out a elk?

[Alpinegus]

We tether the goats in camp when we are out hunting. Put bells on the tether line to help scare wild critters. Domestic dogs are more of problem than anything, see earlier parts to this post.
Regarding how many goats it takes to pack out an elk...only one goat needed if the elk is small enough!   
Three to five goats otherwise for a cow to a bull.