Wolf Wars have moved to Washington

[robertg]

So, if they migrate so well, why plant them?

Wolves were never planted in Washington. They came over naturally from Idaho and other states. There is no reason to reintroduce wolves to Washington when they are already come over naturally from places like Idaho and Canada.

Really?  I think you are the one who has mistaken info

How's that? Do you have any proof that wolves were planted or is this just another conspiracy theory? You said wolves were wiped out for a reason. Elk. bison, grizzlies, etc were also. Humans don't have any right to have wipe out any species.

[jackelope]

So, if they migrate so well, why plant them?

Wolves were never planted in Washington. They came over naturally from Idaho and other states. There is no reason to reintroduce wolves to Washington when they are already come over naturally from places like Idaho and Canada.

Hmmm.... I wonder how those WDFW radio collars got around thier necks.

Wolves were trapped in Washington and collared. This is a pic of this happening. There are others on here, Bearpaw being one of them, that will verify this is a wolf that was trapped and collared in Washington.
That's how the collars got on them.
If we're going to debate the wolves on here, then so be it... please have evidence to back up claims. Otherwise, unfounded claims just look kinda silly. If we as hunters and outdoorsmen in this state are going to make a stand against the wolves and push towards management on a state level here too, then we need it to be an educated push and not just a bunch of people throwing stones.
 

[jackelope]

Im going to start calling anyone who says wolves are endangered a liar.  There somewhere around 70,000 wolves in North America.  Personally I dont have a problem with a few wolves in WA that migrate here naturally but they need to be managed as soon as they cross the border.  They cannot be allowed to leave a path of destruction in their wake as they work their way to the ocean.  The fed has delisted the wolf in almost one third of the state.  I say we demand that any money going towards wolves is cut by one third.  If wolves can adapt to modern landscapes and human populations then they belong here.  They will live and survive where there is the fewest conflicts.  That is natures way.

Where'd that number come from?

[Kain]

Where'd that number come from?

http://library.fws.gov/pubs3/wolves00.pdf

http://www.defenders.org/wildlife_and_habitat/wildlife/wolf,_gray.php
Doesnt give the population for Canada but its still around 50000.

Population
There are an estimated 7,000 to 11,200 wolves in Alaska and more than 5,000 in the lower 48 states. Around the world there are an estimated 200,000 in 57 countries, compared to up to 2 million in earlier times.

If you can trust Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grey_wolf_populations_by_country

Canada has over 52,000-60,000 wolves which are legally considered a big game species, though they are afforded protection in 3% of Canada's territory. The Northwest Territories, Nunavut and Yukon have 5,000 wolves each, British Columbia has 8000 wolves, Alberta 4,200, Saskatchewan 4,300, Manitoba 4,000-6,000, Ontario 9,000, Quebec 5,000 and Labrador 2,000. Canada currently has no livestock damage compensation programmes.[2]
The United States as a whole has up to 9,000 wolves which are increasing in number in all their ranges.



[3nails]

 And now it appears this robertg fellow has succeeded in derailing this thread and turning us against each other. This is why we can never unite as hunters. If he is on here with an open, honest opinion on a HUNTING forum I would like to see some of his big-game hunting pics posted. Otherwise he is on solely to divide us. 

[jackelope]

Im going to start calling anyone who says wolves are endangered a liar.  There somewhere around 70,000 wolves in North America.  Personally I dont have a problem with a few wolves in WA that migrate here naturally but they need to be managed as soon as they cross the border.  They cannot be allowed to leave a path of destruction in their wake as they work their way to the ocean.  The fed has delisted the wolf in almost one third of the state.  I say we demand that any money going towards wolves is cut by one third.  If wolves can adapt to modern landscapes and human populations then they belong here.  They will live and survive where there is the fewest conflicts.  That is natures way.

   
Where'd that number come from?

http://library.fws.gov/pubs3/wolves00.pdf

http://www.defenders.org/wildlife_and_habitat/wildlife/wolf,_gray.php
Doesnt give the population for Canada but its still around 50000.

Population
There are an estimated 7,000 to 11,200 wolves in Alaska and more than 5,000 in the lower 48 states. Around the world there are an estimated 200,000 in 57 countries, compared to up to 2 million in earlier times.

If you can trust Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grey_wolf_populations_by_country

Canada has over 52,000-60,000 wolves which are legally considered a big game species, though they are afforded protection in 3% of Canada's territory. The Northwest Territories, Nunavut and Yukon have 5,000 wolves each, British Columbia has 8000 wolves, Alberta 4,200, Saskatchewan 4,300, Manitoba 4,000-6,000, Ontario 9,000, Quebec 5,000 and Labrador 2,000. Canada currently has no livestock damage compensation programmes.[2]
The United States as a whole has up to 9,000 wolves which are increasing in number in all their ranges.



Good info, Kain. My post was not because I was doubting your claim...just looking for solid info. A posted source helps to display that.
Thanks

[Kain]

No problem I should have sourced it to begin with.  I always try to, just thought it was common knowledge now.

[jackelope]

And now it appears this robertg fellow has succeeded in derailing this thread and turning us against each other. This is why we can never unite as hunters. If he is on here with an open, honest opinion on a HUNTING forum I would like to see some of his big-game hunting pics posted. Otherwise he is on solely to divide us. 

This thread is not derailed and nobody has turned against anyone else.
This is good discussion. Some eyes will be opened in these type threads and that's what we need.
Hopefully you don't think my earlier post was aimed to turn myself against you. You asked how the collars got on the wolves and I showed you.
With that said,  I highly doubt you'll see Robertg posting any hunting photo's anytime soon.

[boneaddict]

They should be allowed to exist as much as Coyotes are.   Open season all year long.  If they can cut it they willl.   They will survive as they have in years past, in the back country where they belong.  Their population will never be large enough to hurt big game populations and yet they will survive just fine. 

[NWBREW]

Kain,  I'm right there with you on that. They are not endangered at all. I as well do not have a problem with maybe 3 breeding pairs in washington but as previously posted....15 will never be reached.....never. That will keep them listed.

The best way to keep a species from extinction is to manage them for hunting. 

[DoubleJ]

They should be allowed to exist as much as Coyotes are.   Open season all year long.  If they can cut it they willl.   They will survive as they have in years past, in the back country where they belong.  Their population will never be large enough to hurt big game populations and yet they will survive just fine. 

 

[WAcoyotehunter]

So, if they migrate so well, why plant them?

Wolves were never planted in Washington. They came over naturally from Idaho and other states. There is no reason to reintroduce wolves to Washington when they are already come over naturally from places like Idaho and Canada.

You're right on the money robertg.  Wolves were not introduced in WA and the wolves that have been collared have been native animals naturally dispersing from Coastal BC (the lookout pack) and animals from near Glacier NP (Salmo pack and Diamond pack) here in Pend Oreille County.
 
I stuggle with the size exagerations made by most anti wolf folks- thanks for posting the harvest average again.  I posted that same data a year or so ago to show the size structure of the harvested animals.

[bucklucky]

I love the wolves and think they need to be protected until all the game animals in washington are gone. They are cute, fuzzy, fun loving critters that deserve to thrive on our dogs, cats, kids, old people etc. I Love the wolves and they will love you back if they are protected. I would rather see wolves in the wild than a deer, elk, moose, cougar, coyote, rabbit, bobcat just to name a few that will go extinct in washington , much like what has happened in Yellowstone National park. Got plenty of cute fuzzy little wolves to look at but nothing else butt geysers and empty meadows that the elk, bison, and deer used to be all over. What I love most about the cute fuzzy little wolves is that they will kill and elk, pull the fetus out and leave without consuming anything, that's what I love about wolves and the reason they need to stay protected and un-hunted. 

[bearpaw]

So, if they migrate so well, why plant them?

Wolves were never planted in Washington. They came over naturally from Idaho and other states. There is no reason to reintroduce wolves to Washington when they are already come over naturally from places like Idaho and Canada.

Please get your facts straight Robert.

Non-native Northern canadian grays were planted in Idaho. ITS DOCUMENTED....
THEY are not natural to our environment. It would be like planting Alaska moose, our native Shiras moose would be bred and outcompeted into extinction.

[bearpaw]

There are those who say we brought the wrong wolves into Idaho in 1995 and 1996, that they’re bigger wolves than the ones that were here.
I have to support the science again, and specialists in morphology and genetics on wolves indicate that the wolf that was brought down from Canada is the same wolf that lived here previously. And I did some research into books on early wolves that were captured in the Northern Rockies, even as far south as Colorado during the days that wolves were being hunted down in the 1930s; and the body weights were very much the same.

So I feel that this wolf that was brought from Canada is the same species and genetics as the wolves that lived here once upon a time. I think people have to remember that the northern Rockies -- we call it the northern Rockies in Idaho and Montana, but actually we’re a southern extension of the northern Rockies out of Canada -- and all of those wolves in Canada have the potential and the ability to disperse. I believe what happened over the last 50-60 years is that individual wolves have come from Canada following the Rocky Mountain chain and ended up periodically in places like Montana and Idaho.-Carter Niemeyer

Carter,
Please get your facts straight. Scientists had the wolves broken into several different subspecies. More recently, scientists supporting wolf introduction have claimed there are no subspecies in order to support their agenda of importing canadian wolves. FACT