Wolf Wars have moved to Washington

[robertg]

So robertg, just a ignorant question, but why do you think the wolves were "exterminated" in the state of washington in the first place.
Pelts,bounty's,fear,ignorance?
not only in this state but adjoining states , and even the southwest?
I do not know your beliefs, but it has been assumed on this thread and elsewhere that most pro-wolf folks want to take hunting of wildlife out of existence, so I do not understand the end result, rather than hunting by humans,it is more Natures way to have animals kill lessor species until the dominant species is what is left. with no regard to seasons,limits or abundance, that natures way of controlling wildlife is the best? so an overabundance of smaller predators also will be addressed by a more aggressive specie, to what end when the most aggressive species is the only one left.
The reason that the wolves are such a big topic, is that very few folks alive today ever had to deal with them, our ancestors did and for some strange reason not only they but our government also determined that they were a problem to be rid of,and so they were eradicated, the same could be argued for Polio.

well said! Wolves are like Polio...... something we shouldn't have to worry about in this day and age. But for some reason these greenies want to bring back a problem we already solved once....

Are you saying that wolves don't have a right to exist? They are native wildlife. Homosapiens have no right to wipe out any wildlife species. Grizzlies, elk, bison, etc were also wiped out in some places. Wolves were brought back because people wanted to turn a wrong into a right. We should have no right to exterminate a species. Wolves are native wildlife as I said.  What is with the name calling grundy? You don't see me calling you any names.

Well going by what you just said we should also bring back Polio and Small Pox. They are both living organisms just like wolves. Why do you get to cherry pick what lives and what dies? what makes you better then us?

Polio is a disease. Wolves are native wildlife. I think it's ridiculous to compare a deadly disease to native wildlife.

How is it ridiculous? They are both living organisms and they both wipe out large populations wherever they are found in abundance. What makes your life more valuable then an elks? The way you talk is that wild animals have more rights then us, so why does an elk have less rights then a wolf? whats your hierarchy?

Do you feel wolves are vermin and should be exterminated?

[Klyne3]

Then let's bring back the bison!

  and then the Yellowstone Elk herd.....

The yellowstone herd is still there, just down in #s. Elk were overpopulated in yellowstone and they needed to be thinned down.

So I am assuming by you saying the herd needed to be thinned down that you agree that Herd sizes needs to be managed? So would that then not apply to predator species also? So who/what then does the thinning out?

I'm all for proper wildlife management. Has anyone thought past how the cute furry wolves are to what happens when they start to encroach on populated area's (example all the recent bear encounters). Imo no one species should be allowed to dominate and potentially wipe out another. As you stated in one of your post when the elk are not available the wolves have turned to bison. So what do you do then when the elk/deer population are no more and wolves decide that the nearest dog park is easy pickin's? or they start hitting the ranches and your nearest Safeway no longer has beef/pork/ chicken available for you? Conservation includes proper management of all wildlife including ALL predator species.

[grundy53]

So robertg, just a ignorant question, but why do you think the wolves were "exterminated" in the state of washington in the first place.
Pelts,bounty's,fear,ignorance?
not only in this state but adjoining states , and even the southwest?
I do not know your beliefs, but it has been assumed on this thread and elsewhere that most pro-wolf folks want to take hunting of wildlife out of existence, so I do not understand the end result, rather than hunting by humans,it is more Natures way to have animals kill lessor species until the dominant species is what is left. with no regard to seasons,limits or abundance, that natures way of controlling wildlife is the best? so an overabundance of smaller predators also will be addressed by a more aggressive specie, to what end when the most aggressive species is the only one left.
The reason that the wolves are such a big topic, is that very few folks alive today ever had to deal with them, our ancestors did and for some strange reason not only they but our government also determined that they were a problem to be rid of,and so they were eradicated, the same could be argued for Polio.

well said! Wolves are like Polio...... something we shouldn't have to worry about in this day and age. But for some reason these greenies want to bring back a problem we already solved once....

Are you saying that wolves don't have a right to exist? They are native wildlife. Homosapiens have no right to wipe out any wildlife species. Grizzlies, elk, bison, etc were also wiped out in some places. Wolves were brought back because people wanted to turn a wrong into a right. We should have no right to exterminate a species. Wolves are native wildlife as I said.  What is with the name calling grundy? You don't see me calling you any names.

Well going by what you just said we should also bring back Polio and Small Pox. They are both living organisms just like wolves. Why do you get to cherry pick what lives and what dies? what makes you better then us?

Polio is a disease. Wolves are native wildlife. I think it's ridiculous to compare a deadly disease to native wildlife.

How is it ridiculous? They are both living organisms and they both wipe out large populations wherever they are found in abundance. What makes your life more valuable then an elks? The way you talk is that wild animals have more rights then us, so why does an elk have less rights then a wolf? whats your hierarchy?

When did I say my life was more important than an elk? When did I say elk have less rights than wolves? Where exactly are you getting this nonsense from? You cannot compare a deadly disease like polio to native wildlife.

Polio and small pox are deadly organisms that wipe out populations of humans. Wolves are deadly organisms that wipe out Elk. You say we should wipe out polio and small pox but not wolves. Therefore you are saying that your life is more important then an Elk's. Polio and Small Pox are natural they were not made by humans so that is "just mother nature at work". No different then wolves. Wolves are a plague on wildlife....

[robertg]

Then let's bring back the bison!

  and then the Yellowstone Elk herd.....

The yellowstone herd is still there, just down in #s. Elk were overpopulated in yellowstone and they needed to be thinned down.

So I am assuming by you saying the herd needed to be thinned down that you agree that Herd sizes needs to be managed? So would that then not apply to predator species also? So who/what then does the thinning out?

I'm all for proper wildlife management. Has anyone thought past how the cute furry wolves are to what happens when they start to encroach on populated area's (example all the recent bear encounters). Imo no one species should be allowed to dominate and potentially wipe out another. As you stated in one of your post when the elk are not available the wolves have turned to bison. So what do you do then when the elk/deer population are no more and wolves decide that the nearest dog park is easy pickin's? or they start hitting the ranches and your nearest Safeway no longer has beef/pork/ chicken available for you? Conservation includes proper management of all wildlife including ALL predator species.

As far as ynp goes, the wolves, grizzlies, etc do the thinning out. That is a national park and there is no hunting allowed. Just about most if not all national parks don't allow hunting.Wolves self-regulate. Disease has been hitting the ynp wolves hard.

[robertg]

So robertg, just a ignorant question, but why do you think the wolves were "exterminated" in the state of washington in the first place.
Pelts,bounty's,fear,ignorance?
not only in this state but adjoining states , and even the southwest?
I do not know your beliefs, but it has been assumed on this thread and elsewhere that most pro-wolf folks want to take hunting of wildlife out of existence, so I do not understand the end result, rather than hunting by humans,it is more Natures way to have animals kill lessor species until the dominant species is what is left. with no regard to seasons,limits or abundance, that natures way of controlling wildlife is the best? so an overabundance of smaller predators also will be addressed by a more aggressive specie, to what end when the most aggressive species is the only one left.
The reason that the wolves are such a big topic, is that very few folks alive today ever had to deal with them, our ancestors did and for some strange reason not only they but our government also determined that they were a problem to be rid of,and so they were eradicated, the same could be argued for Polio.

well said! Wolves are like Polio...... something we shouldn't have to worry about in this day and age. But for some reason these greenies want to bring back a problem we already solved once....

Are you saying that wolves don't have a right to exist? They are native wildlife. Homosapiens have no right to wipe out any wildlife species. Grizzlies, elk, bison, etc were also wiped out in some places. Wolves were brought back because people wanted to turn a wrong into a right. We should have no right to exterminate a species. Wolves are native wildlife as I said.  What is with the name calling grundy? You don't see me calling you any names.

Well going by what you just said we should also bring back Polio and Small Pox. They are both living organisms just like wolves. Why do you get to cherry pick what lives and what dies? what makes you better then us?

Polio is a disease. Wolves are native wildlife. I think it's ridiculous to compare a deadly disease to native wildlife.

How is it ridiculous? They are both living organisms and they both wipe out large populations wherever they are found in abundance. What makes your life more valuable then an elks? The way you talk is that wild animals have more rights then us, so why does an elk have less rights then a wolf? whats your hierarchy?

When did I say my life was more important than an elk? When did I say elk have less rights than wolves? Where exactly are you getting this nonsense from? You cannot compare a deadly disease like polio to native wildlife.

Polio and small pox are deadly organisms that wipe out populations of humans. Wolves are deadly organisms that wipe out Elk. You say we should wipe out polio and small pox but not wolves. Therefore you are saying that your life is more important then an Elk's. Polio and Small Pox are natural they were not made by humans so that is "just mother nature at work". No different then wolves. Wolves are a plague on wildlife....

Do you think wolves are vermin and should be exterminated?

[grundy53]

So robertg, just a ignorant question, but why do you think the wolves were "exterminated" in the state of washington in the first place.
Pelts,bounty's,fear,ignorance?
not only in this state but adjoining states , and even the southwest?
I do not know your beliefs, but it has been assumed on this thread and elsewhere that most pro-wolf folks want to take hunting of wildlife out of existence, so I do not understand the end result, rather than hunting by humans,it is more Natures way to have animals kill lessor species until the dominant species is what is left. with no regard to seasons,limits or abundance, that natures way of controlling wildlife is the best? so an overabundance of smaller predators also will be addressed by a more aggressive specie, to what end when the most aggressive species is the only one left.
The reason that the wolves are such a big topic, is that very few folks alive today ever had to deal with them, our ancestors did and for some strange reason not only they but our government also determined that they were a problem to be rid of,and so they were eradicated, the same could be argued for Polio.

well said! Wolves are like Polio...... something we shouldn't have to worry about in this day and age. But for some reason these greenies want to bring back a problem we already solved once....

Are you saying that wolves don't have a right to exist? They are native wildlife. Homosapiens have no right to wipe out any wildlife species. Grizzlies, elk, bison, etc were also wiped out in some places. Wolves were brought back because people wanted to turn a wrong into a right. We should have no right to exterminate a species. Wolves are native wildlife as I said.  What is with the name calling grundy? You don't see me calling you any names.

Well going by what you just said we should also bring back Polio and Small Pox. They are both living organisms just like wolves. Why do you get to cherry pick what lives and what dies? what makes you better then us?

Polio is a disease. Wolves are native wildlife. I think it's ridiculous to compare a deadly disease to native wildlife.

How is it ridiculous? They are both living organisms and they both wipe out large populations wherever they are found in abundance. What makes your life more valuable then an elks? The way you talk is that wild animals have more rights then us, so why does an elk have less rights then a wolf? whats your hierarchy?

When did I say my life was more important than an elk? When did I say elk have less rights than wolves? Where exactly are you getting this nonsense from? You cannot compare a deadly disease like polio to native wildlife.

Polio and small pox are deadly organisms that wipe out populations of humans. Wolves are deadly organisms that wipe out Elk. You say we should wipe out polio and small pox but not wolves. Therefore you are saying that your life is more important then an Elk's. Polio and Small Pox are natural they were not made by humans so that is "just mother nature at work". No different then wolves. Wolves are a plague on wildlife....

Do you think wolves are vermin and should be exterminated?

Short answer, Yes. I know that will never happen again so I would settle for heavily managed.

[sebek556]

robert g two questions 1 what do you think is the correct number of breeding pairs for wa?
2 what is your personal feelings on gun ownership?

[Klyne3]

Then let's bring back the bison!

  and then the Yellowstone Elk herd.....

The yellowstone herd is still there, just down in #s. Elk were overpopulated in yellowstone and they needed to be thinned down.

So I am assuming by you saying the herd needed to be thinned down that you agree that Herd sizes needs to be managed? So would that then not apply to predator species also? So who/what then does the thinning out?

I'm all for proper wildlife management. Has anyone thought past how the cute furry wolves are to what happens when they start to encroach on populated area's (example all the recent bear encounters). Imo no one species should be allowed to dominate and potentially wipe out another. As you stated in one of your post when the elk are not available the wolves have turned to bison. So what do you do then when the elk/deer population are no more and wolves decide that the nearest dog park is easy pickin's? or they start hitting the ranches and your nearest Safeway no longer has beef/pork/ chicken available for you? Conservation includes proper management of all wildlife including ALL predator species.

As far as ynp goes, the wolves, grizzlies, etc do the thinning out. That is a national park and there is no hunting allowed. Just about most if not all national parks don't allow hunting.Wolves self-regulate. Disease has been hitting the ynp wolves hard.

So why keep refering to Yellowstone .... National Park = No Hunting  we don't live in Yellowstone.. Yellowstone doesn't have apartment building with bears roaming around. Can we start getting data from at ID or Mt from you? Not a National Park. If we are going to talk about this lets make it a comparable. its equivelent to debating if tampons or pads are better

[robertg]

robert g two questions 1 what do you think is the correct number of breeding pairs for wa?
2 what is your personal feelings on gun ownership?

Honest answer, I have no idea, but I will go with what WDFW says, 15 breeding pairs. I have no problem with people owning guns to protect themselves.

[grundy53]

Then let's bring back the bison!

  and then the Yellowstone Elk herd.....

The yellowstone herd is still there, just down in #s. Elk were overpopulated in yellowstone and they needed to be thinned down.

So I am assuming by you saying the herd needed to be thinned down that you agree that Herd sizes needs to be managed? So would that then not apply to predator species also? So who/what then does the thinning out?

I'm all for proper wildlife management. Has anyone thought past how the cute furry wolves are to what happens when they start to encroach on populated area's (example all the recent bear encounters). Imo no one species should be allowed to dominate and potentially wipe out another. As you stated in one of your post when the elk are not available the wolves have turned to bison. So what do you do then when the elk/deer population are no more and wolves decide that the nearest dog park is easy pickin's? or they start hitting the ranches and your nearest Safeway no longer has beef/pork/ chicken available for you? Conservation includes proper management of all wildlife including ALL predator species.

As far as ynp goes, the wolves, grizzlies, etc do the thinning out. That is a national park and there is no hunting allowed. Just about most if not all national parks don't allow hunting.Wolves self-regulate. Disease has been hitting the ynp wolves hard.

So why keep refering to Yellowstone .... National Park = No Hunting  we don't live in Yellowstone.. Yellowstone doesn't have apartment building with bears roaming around. Can we start getting data from at ID or Mt from you? Not a National Park. If we are going to talk about this lets make it a comparable. its equivelent to debating if tampons or pads are better

  If I can't compare Wolves to Polio then you can't compare our wolf situation to the one in Yellowstone. Deal?

[sebek556]

robert g two questions 1 what do you think is the correct number of breeding pairs for wa?
2 what is your personal feelings on gun ownership?

Honest answer, I have no idea, but I will go with what WDFW says, 15 breeding pairs. I have no problem with people owning guns to protect themselves.

ok, to protect themelves what about for recational use? I.E sport shooting, hunting, etc.

[bearmanric]

are you against hunting. Rick

[grundy53]

robert g two questions 1 what do you think is the correct number of breeding pairs for wa?
2 what is your personal feelings on gun ownership?

Honest answer, I have no idea, but I will go with what WDFW says, 15 breeding pairs. I have no problem with people owning guns to protect themselves.

Those are the key words right there. This guy is obviously an anti hunter in general. So of course he doesn't want us to hunt wolves.

[robertg]

robert g two questions 1 what do you think is the correct number of breeding pairs for wa?
2 what is your personal feelings on gun ownership?

Honest answer, I have no idea, but I will go with what WDFW says, 15 breeding pairs. I have no problem with people owning guns to protect themselves.

and let me remind you some want more than 15 breeding pairs and some want much less. I'm in the middle and I will go by what wdfw says.

[WAcoyotehunter]

robert g two questions 1 what do you think is the correct number of breeding pairs for wa?
2 what is your personal feelings on gun ownership?

This thread is getting rediculous.  Sadly, this is what we're going to face as we move forward with wolf recovery in WA.  If hunters don't put their heads together and come up with a coherent plan that addresses wolf numbers and management in a way that can satisfy the stakeholders, then we're screwed.
I really think this thread is so far off topic that it's usefulness has been lost.  Wolves are here to stay.  If hunters aren't going to be involved in a reasonable attempt to manage them, then we're not going to see anything happen that might benefit this percieved crisis. 
Basically, what I'm saying is that we need to get our $hit together and start thinking of some constructive ideas...more constructive than whining about the nativity, politics, gun rights, ... whatever other nonsense is here that has nothing to do with wolf recovery and our (hunters) having some part in the planning of a wolf plan.