Crossbow question, calling Bob33

[DoubleJ]

So, I qualify for use of a crossbow.  I already have my paperwork filled out by the Dr.  This will be my last year of bow hinting before I submit my papers next year to get my crossbow endorsement.  I just cannot pull the bow back anymore.

My question has to do with being disabled and having a designated harvester.  I am categorized as disabled and am authorized a designated harvester.  Once I submit my crossbow papers, can I have a designated harvester use my crossbow to harvest an animal?   

[Bob33]

Good question, and I know someone who can answer it.  I will find out.

[DoubleJ]

I asked for you because you seem to know the regs and the super weird way they are interperated better than anyone here.  Thanks for checking

[Bob33]

The answer is no.  I checked the WACs and also asked a friend who is quite involved with disabled hunters.  Your "special use permit" which allows you to use a crossbow is not transferable.

If you want to read more, WAC 232-12-054 addresses the special use permits:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=232-12-054

WAC 232-12-828 addresses designated hunting companions:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=232-12-828

[DoubleJ]

Thanks man.

[stuckalot]

Curious what the threshold is for the crossbow endorsement.  My wife and I finally made the switch to archery. My Dad who is 70 and is in great shape has shot my wifes bow, but was really concerned about tearing up his shoulder or elbow. After 52 years of bending nails he has a few joint issues.

One of my biggest reservations about switching to archery has been losing the time in the field with my Dad, and have been wondering about the crossbow option...

[bobcat]

stuckalot-  he would need to meet the requirements for a "disabled hunter". See page 83 in the hunting regulagtions.

[stuckalot]

I've read the regulations several times,  but as is the case with many of the regulations they are rather "vague".  Such as under the archery disabled permit section it mentions "unable to hold or draw a bow".  Then goes on to the crossbow permit, for those that can't use draw or holding devices for a bow. 

So if one is unable to draw or hold a bow safely, must they also be unable to use draw aids before using a crossbow?

If someone is fully functional, but a high risk of injury or further damage to joints, tendons or ligaments, would they be considered "disabled"?

I would mostly like to hear from someone who has experience with this regulation, or has been through the process.

Thanks

[Bob33]

A physician determines whether or not someone qualifies:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=232-12-054

 (b) A crossbow special use permit is available to a person who meets the requirements for an archery special use permit and is unable to use adaptive archery equipment. Adaptive equipment includes, but is not limited to: Cocking devices that hold the bow at full draw; trigger mechanisms that may be released by mouth, or chin, or hand supporting the bow; and devices that assist in supporting the bow. Information describing types of adaptive equipment will be provided to physicians for their assessment of the applicant's ability to utilize adaptive archery equipment. Muscle weakness, impaired range of motion, or unilateral hand weakness disability, of both hands or both arms or both sides of the upper extremity, may result in an inability to use adaptive archery equipment. Standard tests approved by the American Medical Association may be conducted to assess a person's abilities.

[sakoshooter]

So, I qualify for use of a crossbow.  I already have my paperwork filled out by the Dr.  This will be my last year of bow hinting before I submit my papers next year to get my crossbow endorsement.  I just cannot pull the bow back anymore.

My question has to do with being disabled and having a designated harvester.  I am categorized as disabled and am authorized a designated harvester.  Once I submit my crossbow papers, can I have a designated harvester use my crossbow to harvest an animal?

Dbl J,
Bob seems like a very intelligent person but I have to ask: Why would you ask such an important question of a joe blow hunter on a forum? The WDFW could easily answer your questions concerning the above and you could take the answers as gospel. Just curious. We've all got opinions and many of them are good but I leave nothing to chance when it comes to laws.

[woodman]

So, I qualify for use of a crossbow.  I already have my paperwork filled out by the Dr.  This will be my last year of bow hinting before I submit my papers next year to get my crossbow endorsement.  I just cannot pull the bow back anymore.

My question has to do with being disabled and having a designated harvester.  I am categorized as disabled and am authorized a designated harvester.  Once I submit my crossbow papers, can I have a designated harvester use my crossbow to harvest an animal?

Dbl J,
Bob seems like a very intelligent person but I have to ask: Why would you ask such an important question of a joe blow hunter on a forum? The WDFW could easily answer your questions concerning the above and you could take the answers as gospel. Just curious. We've all got opinions and many of them are good but I leave nothing to chance when it comes to laws.

I could not agree more. I asked a question on here earlier this week and got an answer 180 degrees wrong. Just ask the game dept. Also pose this question to bigtex on here as a straight up question, yes or no.

[DoubleJ]

So, I qualify for use of a crossbow.  I already have my paperwork filled out by the Dr.  This will be my last year of bow hinting before I submit my papers next year to get my crossbow endorsement.  I just cannot pull the bow back anymore.

My question has to do with being disabled and having a designated harvester.  I am categorized as disabled and am authorized a designated harvester.  Once I submit my crossbow papers, can I have a designated harvester use my crossbow to harvest an animal?

Dbl J,
Bob seems like a very intelligent person but I have to ask: Why would you ask such an important question of a joe blow hunter on a forum? The WDFW could easily answer your questions concerning the above and you could take the answers as gospel. Just curious. We've all got opinions and many of them are good but I leave nothing to chance when it comes to laws.

Nobody on this forum knows the regs as well as Bob33.  I trust his rulings as gospel. 

[woodman]

So, I qualify for use of a crossbow.  I already have my paperwork filled out by the Dr.  This will be my last year of bow hinting before I submit my papers next year to get my crossbow endorsement.  I just cannot pull the bow back anymore.

My question has to do with being disabled and having a designated harvester.  I am categorized as disabled and am authorized a designated harvester.  Once I submit my crossbow papers, can I have a designated harvester use my crossbow to harvest an animal?

Dbl J,
Bob seems like a very intelligent person but I have to ask: Why would you ask such an important question of a joe blow hunter on a forum? The WDFW could easily answer your questions concerning the above and you could take the answers as gospel. Just curious. We've all got opinions and many of them are good but I leave nothing to chance when it comes to laws.

Nobody on this forum knows the regs as well as Bob33.  I trust his rulings as gospel.

May I suggest that you go to the trail camera section and look at this thread,  When it is legal to bait bears in Washington.
I am sure that bob33 is a very smart guy and a nice guy, but he definitely can call the regs wrong.

[bigtex]

As Bob said, the crossbow endorsement is not transferable from the endorsed person to a designated harvester.

Also, to provide you all with some more information there has been some confustion with the crossbow use by disabled hunters. Many think that if you are identified as a disabled hunter that you automatically qualify to use a crossbow, that is FALSE. There is a application process in order for disabled hunters to use a crossbow, this process involves getting your doctor to sign off basically saying that you are unable to pull back a regular bow and must use a crossbow. So if you are disabled but have good arm and shoulder strength then you will most likely not qualify for a crossbow endorsement.

For example I have two friends that are disabled hunters. One is parapeligic and cannot move his body from the middle-back down and has been in a wheelchair for about 25 years, however he has great upper body strength and is not eligible for the endorsement. My other friend can only walk a few feet and that is with crutches, however he has terrible shoulders (disabled vet) and he does qualify and have the crossbow endorsement.

So like I said, simply beind disabled does not qualify you for the crossbow endorsement.

[DoubleJ]

I have all appropriate paperwork already filled out.  I have just been waiting to turn it in because Washington says, once you go crossbow, you can never go back

[Machias]

So, I qualify for use of a crossbow.  I already have my paperwork filled out by the Dr.  This will be my last year of bow hinting before I submit my papers next year to get my crossbow endorsement.  I just cannot pull the bow back anymore.

My question has to do with being disabled and having a designated harvester.  I am categorized as disabled and am authorized a designated harvester.  Once I submit my crossbow papers, can I have a designated harvester use my crossbow to harvest an animal?

Dbl J,
Bob seems like a very intelligent person but I have to ask: Why would you ask such an important question of a joe blow hunter on a forum? The WDFW could easily answer your questions concerning the above and you could take the answers as gospel. Just curious. We've all got opinions and many of them are good but I leave nothing to chance when it comes to laws.

I really have to chuckle at that one.  There's been at least three occasion over the past few years where I have been given conflicting and inaccurate information straight from the WDFW.

[fair-chase]

I really have to chuckle at that one.  There's been at least three occasion over the past few years where I have been given conflicting and inaccurate information straight from the WDFW.

Agreed. I think Bob has a better track record when it comes to answering questions regarding regulations than the call screeners at WDFW.

[DoubleJ]

I really have to chuckle at that one.  There's been at least three occasion over the past few years where I have been given conflicting and inaccurate information straight from the WDFW.

Agreed. I think Bob has a better track record when it comes to answering questions regarding regulations than the call screeners at WDFW.

This *censored* right here

[sakoshooter]

I really have to chuckle at that one.  There's been at least three occasion over the past few years where I have been given conflicting and inaccurate information straight from the WDFW.

Agreed. I think Bob has a better track record when it comes to answering questions regarding regulations than the call screeners at WDFW.

No one said to ask a 'call screener'. A tid bit of common sense here guys. You CAN ask for someone in the related dept when the phone is answered. You guys crack me up.

[Machias]

I really have to chuckle at that one.  There's been at least three occasion over the past few years where I have been given conflicting and inaccurate information straight from the WDFW.

Agreed. I think Bob has a better track record when it comes to answering questions regarding regulations than the call screeners at WDFW.

No one said to ask a 'call screener'. A tid bit of common sense here guys. You CAN ask for someone in the related dept when the phone is answered. You guys crack me up.

I was not referring to a call screener.  A few years ago I responded to a report of elk poaching on Fairchild AFB, I was a criminal investigator at the time.  Two wardens showed up.  It was Aug.  The guy had killed a cow elk.  These two guys were set confiscate the elk and write the guy up.  They could not find any open season for the elk.  That is until I pointed out to them they were looking in the year prior's hunting regs.  I have called and spoke with the Enforcement Section and gotten conflicting answers.  We've had LEO on this site give wrong answers to law related questions even though they were instructors.  All I'm saying is the folks who work at WDFW are in fact people, who can and do make mistakes.  There are two or three guys here who consistently give acurate answers, Bob and Bigtex are two of those I trust.  Do I still do my own research, yes, but those two guys have a much better track record than the folks I have dealt with in the WDFW, and no I'm not talking about call screeners.  Heck the Enforcement Division did not even know it was legal for folks engaged in lawful outdoor activity to carry concealed without a CPL.  Don't put TOO much trust in the folks in position of authority in this state.

[bigtex]

I really have to chuckle at that one.  There's been at least three occasion over the past few years where I have been given conflicting and inaccurate information straight from the WDFW.

Agreed. I think Bob has a better track record when it comes to answering questions regarding regulations than the call screeners at WDFW.

No one said to ask a 'call screener'. A tid bit of common sense here guys. You CAN ask for someone in the related dept when the phone is answered. You guys crack me up.

There are two or three guys here who consistently give acurate answers, Bob and Bigtex are two of those I trust.  Do I still do my own research, yes, but those two guys have a much better track record than the folks I have dealt with in the WDFW, and no I'm not talking about call screeners.  Heck the Enforcement Division did not even know it was legal for folks engaged in lawful outdoor activity to carry concealed without a CPL.  Don't put TOO much trust in the folks in position of authority in this state.

I'm not trying to defend WDFW but I will say this. WDFW has some of the largest and complicated rules/regulations (RCW 77, WAC 220, 232) of any agency in this state and for one individual to literally know all WDFW laws but as well as other laws such as CPL laws is essentially impossible. For example within WDFW regulations you have tribal, nontribal, commercial, and non-commercial regulations. No other state agency has such variety in regulations. And remember that WDFW is no longer just hunting and fishing but also hydraulics violations, they manage deleterious and invasive species, as well as dangerous wildlife issues and numerous other issues.

In comparison if you call the gambling commission they really only have two rule paths, tribal and non tribal. The same goes for the liquor control board. DNR's laws are essentially the same statewide for use on their lands..... 

[Machias]

Agreed Bigtex!

[sakoshooter]

Machias, Fair-Chase referred to 'call screeners.

[Machias]

You guys crack me up.

I know, but this is why I commented.   

[fair-chase]

You guys crack me up.

I find it quite humorous as well. Don't try and read into it too much. I was just trying to pay Bob a compliment for his thourough responses. Of course we shouldn't trust the "call screeners". I thought I made that clear so apparently we agree on that. If no one got that the first time around let me say it again DO NOT TRUST A CALL SCREENER. 

Also you shouldn't rely on the word of  the directors, leo's, biologists, interns, the commission, bums, hookers, midgets, and women. Unless they can show you in writing where it's legal to persue the action you are inquiring about.