WDFW-Why our Early Elk Season is Shorter

[pianoman9701]

I attended the planning meeting for the 2012-2014 hunting seasons in Centralia last night. Many thanks to Kain for joining me and asking the tough questions with regards to bear and cougar seasons, quotas, etc. He brought a leghold trap and attached it to the cougar guy immediately.

With regards to the greatly diminished early archery season, the reason I was given was that archers (18% of WA elk hunters) were taking 36% of the branch bulls taken during the year and it was seen as unfair to modern firearm elk hunters. They really wouldn't address whether the total number taken was equal to or less than quotas, or whether the ratio of bulls to cows was off as a result of the early season being longer before and such a larger percentage os branch bulls being taken. So, I'm unsatisfied that the reason our season was shortened was justified by actual management numbers, as opposed to wanting to placate a larger base of hunters, the modern guys. It is this archer's opinion, and not based on exact science, that the modern season could have been increased WITHOUT decreasing the archery season, thus giving a net increase of hunting opportunities instead of taking away from Peter to pay Paul. What they did, again in my opinion, was move hunting dates around to be more popular with a larger number of people.

It seems to me that the first thing the WDFW should be asking with regards to any of these seasons, including predator seasons, is "can we increase hunting opportunities without risking herd/species decline?" I don't believe this is yet in their vocabulary and it should be. As with our discussion on cougar management, why have seasons been shortened and weapons restrictions added for a population which, except in about 8 areas statewide, is above targeted levels? For healthy populations, the first question I would like to see is, "can we increase hunter opportunities here without jeopardizing herd/species numbers?". It only makes sense to me that this be asked for the benefit of the people who directly pay the most into our state wildlife system-WA's hunters and fishermen/women.

I will be sending my personal views to the department for their consideration before they make final decisions about the upcoming seasons. Any of you can do the same by sending a letter (most effective), or an email to the WDFW commissioners. Their email is:
commission@dfw.wa.gov

[pianoman9701]

I'm moving this over to WDFW topic.

[buglebrush]

One thing that needs to be brought into this discussion: If you consider who these hunters are, it makes perfect sense that archery hunters score more bulls.  Now, I know I am generalizing here, but if someone is going to be the roadhunter type which weapon is he most likely to use?  Most archery hunters tend to really be into their sport, and put in the time needed to score on a bull.  I am so sick of Washington's Retarded, Short seasons crowding everyone into the woods on the same weekend!!!  It is my opinion that  a longer season doesn't mean more days in the woods.  For those of us that work a steady job, it simply means we have the freedom to work it into our schedule better.  It also means less pressure by spreading hunters out over several weekends, thereby giving a much better experience even though I still can only take so many days off work. 

[Elkslayer]

One thing that needs to be brought into this discussion: If you consider who these hunters are, it makes perfect sense that archery hunters score more bulls.  Now, I know I am generalizing here, but if someone is going to be the roadhunter type which weapon is he most likely to use?  Most archery hunters tend to really be into their sport, and put in the time needed to score on a bull.  I am so sick of Washington's Retarded, Short seasons crowding everyone into the woods on the same weekend!!!  It is my opinion that  a longer season doesn't mean more days in the woods.  For those of us that work a steady job, it simply means we have the freedom to work it into our schedule better.  It also means less pressure by spreading hunters out over several weekends, thereby giving a much better experience even though I still can only take so many days off work. 

  I agree, I have friends and relatives that are Spokane Indian. Recently they did a study on there elk harvest. When they first opened up elk seasons on the reservation they had a 7-10 day season. The last three years they cut it back to 3-4days. They found that with the shorter season more hunters were in the woods those days and they were killing more elk. With more hunters in the woods the elk couldn't escape without running into another hunter. With a longer season all the hunters would not be in the woods at the same time, allowing the elk a better opportunity to escape.

[NWWABOWHNTR]

Pianoman,
Who from the WDFW said that?  I am curious as I brought the same thing up to both Dave Ware and Jerry Nelson, and they did not mention that as a reason.... wish they had as I have their figures from multiple previous seasons that shows our success rate compared to modern rifle...

[bobcat]

Seems to me that one of the reasons had to be the need to make room for moving the early muzzleloader deer season up by a week. That was one thing they did to try to improve muzzleloader seasons, but of course it took away from archery. They can't make everybody happy.

[buglebrush]

Seems to me that one of the reasons had to be the need to make room for moving the early muzzleloader deer season up by a week. That was one thing they did to try to improve muzzleloader seasons, but of course it took away from archery. They can't make everybody happy.

They could go a long ways towards making everyone happy by allowing us to hunt with various weapons and slant tags towards one or the other ala Idaho.

[pianoman9701]

Seems to me that one of the reasons had to be the need to make room for moving the early muzzleloader deer season up by a week. That was one thing they did to try to improve muzzleloader seasons, but of course it took away from archery. They can't make everybody happy.

No, according to the head of game management, they took away days from archery because archers took too many branch bull in comparison to modern shooters. Moving the ML season was just a result of that. And, yes, they can make everyone happy. The elk numbers tell us that they didn't need to take anything away from archery to add to modern. One problem is the mentality of DFW that there need to be trade-offs, even when their data says otherwise. It's just like the cougar seasons. They shortened the season and added firearm restrictions when in almost every part of the state, the harvest of cougars was at or below management goals. We need to have a DFW that has "how can we improve hunter opportunities" as their first thought when changes are made, not "they have enough of a season. They don't need any more"..

[buglebrush]

Seems to me that one of the reasons had to be the need to make room for moving the early muzzleloader deer season up by a week. That was one thing they did to try to improve muzzleloader seasons, but of course it took away from archery. They can't make everybody happy.

No, according to the head of game management, they took away days from archery because archers took too many branch bull in comparison to modern shooters. Moving the ML season was just a result of that. And, yes, they can make everyone happy. The elk numbers tell us that they didn't need to take anything away from archery to add to modern. One problem is the mentality of DFW that there need to be trade-offs, even when their data says otherwise. It's just like the cougar seasons. They shortened the season and added firearm restrictions when in almost every part of the state, the harvest of cougars was at or below management goals. We need to have a DFW that has "how can we improve hunter opportunities" as their first thought when changes are made, not "they have enough of a season. They don't need any more"..

Amen, Amen, Amen!!!

[colockumelk]

I am a good law abiding citizen.  I have been an avocate for accurately reporting your harvest.  If this is the reason why the shortened our seasons because we have been accurately reporting our harvests then why report anymore.  Well I can tell you that from now on I will ALWAYS report, "NO HARVEST" because if me being a good citizen means they are gonna use my data to take away more opportunities and more of my season well then the WDFW can kiss my rear end and just lost my accurate harvest reporting.  I would suggest more people do the same. 

[pianoman9701]

I am a good law abiding citizen.  I have been an avocate for accurately reporting your harvest.  If this is the reason why the shortened our seasons because we have been accurately reporting our harvests then why report anymore.  Well I can tell you that from now on I will ALWAYS report, "NO HARVEST" because if me being a good citizen means they are gonna use my data to take away more opportunities and more of my season well then the WDFW can kiss my rear end and just lost my accurate harvest reporting.  I would suggest more people do the same.

I understand the sentiment but completely disagree. We have to take the high road, do what we're told, and then they have nothing but explaining to do to us. As a group, Hunting-Washington is itself quite influential. Washington for Wildlife is also pushing every button we can push and reminding them every day how many people we represent and what for what we stand. Keep reporting. Join WFW, pay for your membership, and get involved in a committee which is important to your hunting passion. If you love to hunt, fight for it.

[The100Road]

I am a good law abiding citizen.  I have been an avocate for accurately reporting your harvest.  If this is the reason why the shortened our seasons because we have been accurately reporting our harvests then why report anymore.  Well I can tell you that from now on I will ALWAYS report, "NO HARVEST" because if me being a good citizen means they are gonna use my data to take away more opportunities and more of my season well then the WDFW can kiss my rear end and just lost my accurate harvest reporting.  I would suggest more people do the same.

 
Did anyone mention that There would be more bulls for all seasons to harvest if the tribes would stop slaughtering them all?

[pianoman9701]

I am a good law abiding citizen.  I have been an avocate for accurately reporting your harvest.  If this is the reason why the shortened our seasons because we have been accurately reporting our harvests then why report anymore.  Well I can tell you that from now on I will ALWAYS report, "NO HARVEST" because if me being a good citizen means they are gonna use my data to take away more opportunities and more of my season well then the WDFW can kiss my rear end and just lost my accurate harvest reporting.  I would suggest more people do the same.

 
Did anyone mention that There would be more bulls for all seasons to harvest if the tribes would stop slaughtering them all?

Really? That's not part of this thread. Please drop it.

[colockumelk]

I am a good law abiding citizen.  I have been an avocate for accurately reporting your harvest.  If this is the reason why the shortened our seasons because we have been accurately reporting our harvests then why report anymore.  Well I can tell you that from now on I will ALWAYS report, "NO HARVEST" because if me being a good citizen means they are gonna use my data to take away more opportunities and more of my season well then the WDFW can kiss my rear end and just lost my accurate harvest reporting.  I would suggest more people do the same.

I understand the sentiment but completely disagree. We have to take the high road, do what we're told, and then they have nothing but explaining to do to us. As a group, Hunting-Washington is itself quite influential. Washington for Wildlife is also pushing every button we can push and reminding them every day how many people we represent and what for what we stand. Keep reporting. Join WFW, pay for your membership, and get involved in a committee which is important to your hunting passion. If you love to hunt, fight for it.

Pianoman you are 100%.  I was just venting and blowing off steam.  I would love to joing WFW and have already done alot of that stuff on the side.  WOuld be nice to have some help.  But....  I live in AL and am about to move to NY (In the Army) so I can't really give any time to WFW.  However....  if you need me to do research and/or write a research paper I would be more than willing to do that. 

[pianoman9701]

I am a good law abiding citizen.  I have been an avocate for accurately reporting your harvest.  If this is the reason why the shortened our seasons because we have been accurately reporting our harvests then why report anymore.  Well I can tell you that from now on I will ALWAYS report, "NO HARVEST" because if me being a good citizen means they are gonna use my data to take away more opportunities and more of my season well then the WDFW can kiss my rear end and just lost my accurate harvest reporting.  I would suggest more people do the same.

I understand the sentiment but completely disagree. We have to take the high road, do what we're told, and then they have nothing but explaining to do to us. As a group, Hunting-Washington is itself quite influential. Washington for Wildlife is also pushing every button we can push and reminding them every day how many people we represent and what for what we stand. Keep reporting. Join WFW, pay for your membership, and get involved in a committee which is important to your hunting passion. If you love to hunt, fight for it.

Pianoman you are 100%.  I was just venting and blowing off steam.  I would love to joing WFW and have already done alot of that stuff on the side.  WOuld be nice to have some help.  But....  I live in AL and am about to move to NY (In the Army) so I can't really give any time to WFW.  However....  if you need me to do research and/or write a research paper I would be more than willing to do that.

Have fun at Ft. Drum. Not a bad post at all, especially now that we're getting toward deer season and the beautiful fall. If you need someone to hunt with, my brother is in Syracuse and his sons are grown and they all hunt. Once you get settled PM me and we'll hood you up.  Hoo-ah.