to the indian netting 8-2

[ICEMAN]

Or try this instead;
 
Take half of your tribe and give them continued access and special treatment like the entire tribe has today. Take the other half and make them responsible for providing for their family with no special treatment, no special rights, fully fledged tax paying workers. Tax these new workers and fund all of the special treatment provided the first half...  Sound like a fun plan?
 
 

[remington300mag]

FC, you deserve a respone,

To be clear, "my people" are the Quinaults.  I see the reservation and the places where we fish almost everyday.  Most of the commercial fishery issues you're talking about are not applicable to us, as we do not target roe.  Everything else you described...I can get a good look at by driving through places all over Grays Harbor Co. (or the US for that matter). 

Based on the words you're putting into my mouth and/or your interpretation of what I think is acceptable or what offends me, I'd say you've paid little attention to any of my posts.  Which is fine, as I give no merit to anyting you've posted on this topic either.  Unfortunately resource exploitation is a real thing.  Historically it was not something that existed in Indian country, and it certainly isn't something that is Indian specific today.  What is "silly" to me is how exaggerated and one-sided your posts always are.

Tap Danced right around the questions didn't ya? Guess it doesn't bother you at all....which would mean that the stereo types shouldn't bother you at all! Right??
Myself,  I come from a place named "Stinkin' Creek" Tennessee.....there are some white trash, back woods, redneck, law breaking, pieces of crap that live out there...Not all, but some...All I can do is try and live better than they do.....The stereo types do not bother me at all!! Why, cause I am not going to do anything to change those people that live where my family comes from! As well the stereo types should not bother you......because it is clear there are problem people that cause the stereo types and you are going to do nothing to stop it!

Just remember Coastal just because people are trashing on some people of a race....doesn't mean they are trashing on you or your family! If you truly do hold yourself to a higher standard....then hold your head up high.....and when people start trashing on "Dirty Indians".....You and your family can still be proud to call yourself "Native Americans"....

Do I make any sense at all??? Or is my "Dumb, Hillbilly, Inbred, Redneck" side coming out???

[runamuk]

gonna toss out another word or two

"ghetto"

whats this mean? its a stereotype isnt it yet its become fashionable in some circles to emulate this behavior

"white trash"

thats what I aspired not to be because my own grandmother..well great granny from arkansas who was a bigot said white trash was the lowest life of human existence...was cool to know how I rated since we lived within that realm that is called white trash....

"the rez"

also creates an image and not a good one doesnt mean there arent good people, just like the ghetto or white trash not all who come from these places fit the stereotype but the stereotype tends to fit the place....

"government housing"

theres another that brings up all kinds of images

[FC]

Everything else you described...I can get a good look at by driving through places all over Grays Harbor Co. (or the US for that matter). 

False...and you know it! The rest of us are actually required to adhere to building codes, your rez might not average 15 dead cars per shack but it would be the only one I ever saw that didn't.

Based on the words you're putting into my mouth and/or your interpretation of what I think is acceptable or what offends me, I'd say you've paid little attention to any of my posts. 

This must be the part where you are going to tell me that you and your tribe don't deserve any of the special privileges that you and your race are currently accorded. No? Thought not.

I'd say you've paid little attention to any of my posts.   

On the contrary, I've paid a good deal of attention to your posts and while typically well written and carefully worded they still exude an entitled attitude.

Unfortunately resource exploitation is a real thing.

Why is it condoned now? Are you actively seeking to curb the tribal rape of resources? Are your people going to start putting some of their own money into conservation as opposed to suing others and collecting grants and trying to say that you actually paid for something? If it makes you feel any better, I am against ALL commercial fishing, I don't find indians to be special in this regard but they do tend to be the most rapacious.

What is "silly" to me is how exaggerated and one-sided your posts always are.

Really? I actually played down the last one but I will start taking pics of carcass piles, indians shooting sea lions on the Hood Canal etc. Indians ripping up schools of fish with strings of huge barbed trebles and claiming protection via their heritage. Ironically the sea lion executions didn't bother me but the complete disregard for the safety of others due to ricochet was astonishing. If I had to guess at what the opinions of many of your ancestors would be on the current generation and their insatiable greed I am gonna guess they wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire!

The stereotypes can be fixed if the tribes seek to do so, telling us that they are baseless lowers your credibility into obscurity.

[nontypical176]

I got hung up on a "native american" platform/scaffold/deck whatever the other day, it was windy and my spinner is now sunk deep into the pole at the end of the platform.  Those platforms are popping up left and right, brand new ones made out of 2x6's, nails and rope, the way all the ancestrial platforms were.  Every spot there is good bank fishing around Draino has a new one on it, with more to come up and down the river, just seen a truck load of lumber they other day.  But they are numbered and well marked, so it was my bad and I apologize for not climbing out there to remove my lure, but didn't want to get in trouble for being on these all necessary platforms.  I am 1/64 cherokee, wonder if it would be possible to get me a platform.   They make it a pain to cast, or land a fish I tell you what.  Some things are just hard to avoid, again I apologize to the native americans that might be inconvenienced by my lure.  Hope I don't end up in court from this post.

[PlateauNDN]

I may be chiming in late but later is better than never.  FC, we've had some good ones and I'll resond to yours as well.  I know I've addressed the issue before and you might have missed it but here it comes again.  I live just off the Rez. but work day in and day out on the Rez.  I see the Rez. every single day and I grew up, went to school and graduated from the Rez.  I've spent most of my life living here except the few years I was gone in the Marines. 

I see the dredges of my Tribe everyday because a lot of them are clients of my employer and I deal with not just them but every ethnic group that lives on this Rez.  Whites, blacks, hispanics, asian etc... but they are all clients that I deal with whether they are homeless, poor, old, disabled etc...

There are those that do not wish to do anything to curb the abuse of our "rights" and there are those of us that do want to do something and I'm one of them.  It doesn't matter how many times you and I have it out and sometimes they are rather enjoyable but in the end you're not the one I have to convince to get on our Tribal Council. 

The people here are the ones I have to convince that there is a problem with the way our current Government handles situations like these and many others.  We've gone back and forth and the one thing I have learned from all of this is I have found a new source of ideas.  Some of the ideas may not hold merit but some do and they are worth exporing and possible implementation.

You've said I before that I've spoken like a true politician and again that's correct.  If change is to happen then somebody has to be willing to step into the fire and step into the spotlight of being the one to make the decisions and take responsibility for making changes whether everybody agrees with them or not.

I would love to provide more details and answer more but I've got a full plate today and if anybody else has anything I can answer later tonight.

[FC]

I would love to provide more details and answer more but I've got a full plate today and if anybody else has anything I can answer later tonight.

I would be interested in hearing what you think you can get done about this wastefulness, any step away from that is a step in the right direction.

[Heartsblood]

I would love to provide more details and answer more but I've got a full plate today and if anybody else has anything I can answer later tonight.

I would be interested in hearing what you think you can get done about this wastefulness, any step away from that is a step in the right direction.

I too would be interested to know if there's anything afoot towards addressing the commercial fishing aspect which as we know almost always comes with the heartbreaking waste and often complete depletion of the fish stocks involved.

I think if calmer heads prevailed a bit more, we would see that Indians did not invent commercial fishing, nor are they the only practitioners of such an endeavor. Nor have they done most of the damage in the world to fish stocks comparitively to other groups who also commercially fish. If we were to come at it from this perspective, perhaps we then might see that it's not a specific group that is the problem, rather a specific practice.

It's much easier to blame a group because then we have a name and face to be pissed off at. It's much harder to blame a system which has no human face, is much more elusive to pin accountability on, and would require actual effort/activism to try and dismantle or change.

My buck fiddy.

[FC]

You certainly raise some good points heartsblood although indians have been by far the most wasteful pigs that I have ever seen involved with commercial fishing and they HAVE done the most damage to our steelhead runs and continue to do the most damage to our salmon runs.

[Knocker of rocks]

and they HAVE done the most damage to our steelhead runs and continue to do the most damage to our salmon runs.

Suburbia destroyed our fish runs.

[Special T]

Hearts blood,It think your statement is a pretty fair assessment. With the complaints about waste because of roe only harvest, there should be a business opportunity. I know i feed my dog food that has salmon in it... Not all salmon can command prices good enough for the fresh market... I remember reading somewhere that dead carcasses and or fillet salmon head/bones were hearing reintroduced to some rivers above dams and falls to promote the cadis fly hatch... Not all problems are waste... and like heartblood said if cooler heads engaged it could be better for all.

[runamuk]

Hearts blood,It think your statement is a pretty fair assessment. With the complaints about waste because of roe only harvest, there should be a business opportunity. I know i feed my dog food that has salmon in it... Not all salmon can command prices good enough for the fresh market... I remember reading somewhere that dead carcasses and or fillet salmon head/bones were hearing reintroduced to some rivers above dams and falls to promote the cadis fly hatch... Not all problems are waste... and like heartblood said if cooler heads engaged it could be better for all.

why isn't it utilized in the fish fertilizer market is my question...fish fertilizer is good stuff and typically falls into the OMRI or organic labeling and would sure be a better use than just chucking them...I understand some body count is needed in rivers for the smolts to eat and to feed the circle of life but that doesn't account for the fish piled on banks....

[Instinct]

Netting is a joke. I remember i was drift fishing wth corkys on the puyallup one year i was watching my tip and noticed everyone moved back looked behind me to cast n there was a dude wth a net commin up behind me like 20ft. Tried out runnin the net couldnt hoped over kinda caught in it. All the mother f er said dont ruin the net. Got out of there but couldve lost all my gear and my life. Was bout ready to cut it to save my self.

[JimmyHoffa]

and they HAVE done the most damage to our steelhead runs and continue to do the most damage to our salmon runs.

Suburbia destroyed our fish runs.

I used to believe this was the major factor--I assume you mean land development.  But look at the rivers that are still undeveloped.  Sprawl/habitat loss might be huge contributors in certain Puget Sound rivers.  You can go down the Queets or Hoh or a few others and see very little human interference.  Even the runs in Alaska are at lower levels. 
The hatcheries are pumping out so many fish right now (US, Canada, Russia, Japan) that estimates are that there are more salmon in the ocean than have ever been.  The commercial fleet is well equipped--side scan sonar, spotter planes, high speed boats, data from scientific buoys, etc.  A guy I know that runs a seafood company in Seattle said they could catch nearly every fish out there if they really wanted to.
There is huge demand for salmon right now because of the health food/omega-3/sushi trends.

I would love to provide more details and answer more but I've got a full plate today and if anybody else has anything I can answer later tonight.

I would be interested in hearing what you think you can get done about this wastefulness, any step away from that is a step in the right direction.

If at all interested in what I think would solve it......Laws, ENFORCED laws.  If non-Indians could get away with the same practices as the Indians then (I think) we'd see 1,000 X the nets.  Until they have laws against it and get more than slapped wrists it will remain widespread.  Laws won't eliminate it outright, just cut it waaaaay down. 

[JimmyHoffa]

why isn't it utilized in the fish fertilizer market is my question...fish fertilizer is good stuff and typically falls into the OMRI or organic labeling and would sure be a better use than just chucking them...I understand some body count is needed in rivers for the smolts to eat and to feed the circle of life but that doesn't account for the fish piled on banks....

I guessing it is because a buyer hasn't approached them yet.  As soon as bycatch/remains have dollar signs attached to them, they'd be selling.
The biggest piles I've seen were from DFW, for 'river nourishment'.  DFW had too many silvers return to the hatchery so they were cutting the tails off and then putting them in a trailer.  Thousands of them.  Then they would take them up the mountain and dump them off the bridge.  The bios kept talking about doing this to raise the nitrogen.